T O P

Tony Khan on Jim Cornette: "He has been very fair recently with the stuff he said & I think that's great. I really admire him & have looked up to him since I was a small kid. I don't know if I would be doing this without him because you know there are no textbooks on how to be a wrestling promoter"

Tony Khan on Jim Cornette: "He has been very fair recently with the stuff he said & I think that's great. I really admire him & have looked up to him since I was a small kid. I don't know if I would be doing this without him because you know there are no textbooks on how to be a wrestling promoter"

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tamakingdo

Full quote: “To be fair to him, these are his opinions. He says what he thinks and there is stuff on the show that he’s liked before and there’s stuff he hasn’t liked and I think he’s still like that. He’s not saying he loves everything on the show but he has acknowledged a lot of great stuff that happened. What really tickled me and I thought was very cool was his line about CM Punk’s arrival about his debut appearance in AEW on The First Dance and I’ll never forget it. His exact quote was, ‘well it wasn’t what I would have done. It was a lot better. It was perfect.’ I thought that was awesome and it was very fair because I think it was our perfect moment and it was very cool of him to say. He has been very fair recently with the stuff he said and I think that’s great. I really admire him and have looked up to him since I was a small kid. I don’t know if I would be doing this without him because you know there are no textbooks on how to be a wrestling promoter. There are no college classes for it. When I was going to school when I was going to the University of Illinois Laboratory High School and then the University of Illinois for college, those interviews he used to do, he would sit around for 4 hours plus with the smart fans talking and guys would tape it with a camcorder. The quality was terrible but the audio was what was really important and he would talk and tell stories about being a wrestling promoter. You know the forbidden door is something that is an important part of AEW, the ability to bring in stars from the outside or our stars traveling to other promotions and winning titles and putting on dream matches. It’s very cool but it’s not a completely new concept, the idea of companies working together. That’s something that I learned listening to him. Vince McMahon, Sr. really was very diplomatic about working with other wrestling companies. Andre The Giant was a great political asset for him and Andre The Giant traveled and Vince Sr. did business with a lot of these other promoters and had a pretty decent relationship for a very long time and there is no reason that can’t be done again and there is just a lot about wrestling history that [Cornette] knows and he’s put into the world. I think a lot of us don’t necessarily agree with all of his opinions and clearly, he doesn’t agree with everything he sees on our show but he’s got a lot of fans for a reason and it’s cool to see he’s really enjoying some of the stuff he sees on the shows and I don’t think anybody can argue with the success, he’s an intelligent person. Look, we’re doing great. Dynamite has been a huge huge success, especially recently. It’s three straight weeks that we’re the number 1 show on all of cable…”


LSines2015

Tony always comes off as being very well spoken in any interview I’ve heard or read that he’s taken part of.


theB1ackSwan

You kinda have to be, especially when you're a fairly public leader of a business. He can't be putting everyone on blast for any small reason. Also, Cornette definitely has some shitty opinions, but he definitely embodies the Onion headline of "Your worst enemy just made a really good point"


Jesburger

He's not Tony's enemy though, he's been giving Tony free booking lessons for over a year now. That's worth its weight in gold.


Jordbrett

Tell that to Dana White aka every fighter the UFC pays who makes him slightly angry he buries.


TheFinnishChamp

It's interesting that Khan has this viewpoint, I have to imagine it's very different from what the EVPs (excluding Cody who probably has similar views) think.


kingofphilly

To be fair, Tony Kahn did try and tap Jim Cornette for something within AEW when it was first getting off the ground. Corny turned it down when he found out who the EVPs were. He talks about it all the time and the NDA he signed.


[deleted]

Well, on the one hand, Cornette hasn't called Khan a pedophile or really personally attacked him in the same way as the EVPs. And, on the other, what Khan's saying here really isn't *that* dissimilar from what Kenny said about him [recently](https://twitter.com/kennyomegamanx/status/1413907194165317637?lang=en).


wgsmeister2002

He said did say Khan does snort adderall tho


mrrichardson2304

I mean, I'm not even mad if he does. Tony keeps a crazy schedule. I don't know how he juggles all the things he juggles.


BuckBacon

Kenny murdered him with kindness here. Absolutely no response Cornette could give to that.


[deleted]

And Khan's doing something very similar here. Praise Cornette's expertise while thanking him for when he has praised you. This is how you build bridges, AEW as a whole seems pretty good at it.


embanot

Khan has never put down anyone as far I know. Literally every interview he finds a way to be positive even when asked about controversial topics


namdekan

The time when Janela had said that he and Corny were friends and have drinks at Chilis was good and then Chilis official Twitter chimed in and verified Joey's claims that they were there together drinking margarita's.


itinerant_gs

Kenny has taken the low road before, too. Just for clarity.


HeavyMetalHero

And I mean, Cornette goes so hard on Kenny so regularly that I figure Kenny pretty much could say anything about Cornette and it wouldn't be unfair. It's actually ridiculous, beyond the pale. Kenny would have to tangibly endanger or hurt Cornette in some way before I'd feel like it was entirely unjustified of him to go off. Cornette's conduct to him is *beyond* abusive.


OpportunitySmalls

It's a funnier heel move to say you hope someone will be remembered for their positive contributions when most anyone under 30 has no real frame of reference for them and to an entire generation he is old man yells at clouds and gets fired from every company.


thatlad

You've got to look at it like this. They're a professional media company with bigger goals than picking fights with the Alex Jones of wrestling world. Hate him behind closed doors but publicly keep it civil and even complimentary when appropriate. That way instead of weeks if not months of media attention being on Cornett's it's on the important things. I mean look at the khan quote again, he spun that compliment round to once again tout their consistent high performance in the ratings. Quite clever


Jesburger

Tony wanted to hire Cornette, he doesn't hate him at all.


[deleted]

Absolutely. Khan and the Elite are clever. They're good at this and they've got big fish to fry. It would be great to have Cornette on board, but he's hardly the focus of their ambitions.


Cutlass_Stallion

Tony's just calling it like it is: Cornette has his viewpoints, his viewpoints hold weight due to his legacy in the business, and some points Tony agrees with and others he doesn't. Which is a great attitude to have! We don't necessarily want to go back to 1960-70's era wrestling, but there's a lot of psychology from that era that can be applied to today's indie style wrestling (such as selling big moves more so the audience doesn't get emotionally drained halfway through the show). Being able to take and use constructive criticism is the marking of a good leader.


Un_creative_name

This is where I agree with Cornette the most. I just want some moves to be sold more. I realize that a ddt won't end a match in 2021, but a ddt on the ring apron should be used as a finisher, not a transition move to a dive to the outside with 10 minutes left in the match.


Cutlass_Stallion

Right, or one of my big gripes is when you got a grappler like Daniel Garcia who's wrenching the legs of Darby Allen for half the match, but then towards the end of the fight Darby is running, doing backflips, jumping, kicking, etc as if all that working the legs meant nothing. If AEW (and other promotions) can tighten up those little points of detail, they could make the moves mean more, which improves the storytelling. Otherwise the show sometimes devolves into a Marvel movie, where the villain gets thrown into a volcano, gets a building pushed on top of him, and then gets shot at with a missile, yet arises from the ashes unscathed. It all starts to feel meaningless after a while.


CaptainReptillian

Take the Canadian destroyer for example. It was a finisher a decade ago now a top rope destroyer is a transition move.


Waxtron

My best friend’s brother has a permanent limp from being almost paralyzed when his basketball teammate gave him a DDT.


MovieWizard

I just want them to respect the referees more. It is not cheating if there are no rules to be broken.


Appropriate_Book7077

Mox's move is just a double arm impaler ddt which comes off more like a snap ddt half the time.


TomAtkinsSquareButt

It's the viewpoint of a man who knows how to do business.


onewingedfairy

who cares what they think, tony has the final say in everything, as he should


kpod4591

If this leads to FTR attacking the Bucks and Cornette coming down the Heel ramp with a tennis racket = take my money


UnitGhidorah

That would be nuts. There would be some white heat on Cornette. Given his hatred for Omega and the Bucks I don't think it would ever happen. Cornette is a millionaire and doesn't have to do shit if he doesn't want to.


Doyoubleedyouwill

Am I misremembering but did he say he makes more money now than he ever did


JordanMerks

Only way this happens is if he comes out in a hazmat suit haha Jim's a full on germaphobe these days. Tony might actually let him though which would make it even better.


the_washout

Kinda hard not to be a germaphobe during Covid.


itinerant_gs

I'd love for this to end with the ultimate swerve - Cornette showing up as an announcer. I can hear it plain as day: JR - "It's Wednesday Night, you know what that means!" Tony - "Welcome to Dynamite everybody, and let me introduce the newest addition to..." Corny - "Can you believe this folks? Me, Jim Cornette, public enemy #1 over here at All Petite Wrestling, ME being gifted a spot at the broadcast table. Do you know how badly they wanted me? The number it took to get me out of the house? I could have waited out my death with my wife and my dog and been a happy man, but who could turn down a desperate billionaire's promise to become the highest paid wrestling announcer in history? And OK yeah it's nice to be here with my friends JR and Tony, even if I have to suffer Excrement over there, but at least with him around I won't have to bother learning any of these outlaw, mudshow, sideshow freaks' names or moves. And I'll tell you another thing..." Tony - "Jim the first match has already started..."


MikeMakesRight82

Jim: "i told khan i don't want money...i want to be transplanted a 500 gallon bladder built in a lab so i can piss on Russo's grave for a week"


JordanMerks

You can't tell me this wasn't actually said to Tony.


Atwillim

Tony is a fucking man. Imagine anyone fron thw other side asked that question. They'd probably pretend to don't know who Jim is or what he's doing, do their best to diminish his relevancy and Tony just lays his heart out with 0 hesitation


Minnale101

Cornette has been very pro lately besides elite stuff He said AEW gonna pass wwe in future


Xex_ut

His co-host, Brian Last, said he’s rooting for AEW over WWE now. Cornette replied by saying he wasn’t rooting for anyone


Infinite-Surprise-53

Brian Last clearly likes a lot of modern stuff but he can't say that because he knows his audience


sludgebeard

From the clips I have heard Brian Last has some fairly deep wrestling knowledge, not on the promoter side but at least on the old time style that Cornette likes. I heard him make reference to a random Feud from MidSouth in the early 80s and was like ok ok I get it why these two are paired.


Jakefmerch

Last actually has a podcast where he and another guy review week by week old Mid South shows.


International-Fig905

I am from St. Louis and I was embarrassed when they went over all of the pro wrestling history there; I really only knew of The Chase.


antonio_bananas21

When was that episode? I grew up in Missouri, my grandparents got me into wrestling and had been going to The Chase.


International-Fig905

Here's the clip of it: https://youtu.be/_K06O03xJLE


KamikazeWordsmith

I’d honestly say that Brian’s wrestling knowledge might be equal to, or even greater than, Jim’s — at least from the perspective of being a wrestling historian. He’s always been sharp when it comes to historical events in wrestling and when, in time, they occurred, to the point where Jim often asks him to verify certain things as they discuss them. While Brian does often use the internet to look things up, there’s a ton of things — really obscure things, even — he just seems to have memorized, that he can recall off the top of his head.


Tom_Dynamite

The one time he blew my mind was in an old episode when Cornette was talking about some minor thing on some show and Brian Last immediately was like "yeah that was midsouth, the November 22 episode from 1984" (I made up the date cause I don't remember the details). I was like "no way" and googled it and it actually took some time even with the date because it was fairly obscure but he was completely right.


Tanthiel

Last also does a show by show Mid South podcast with another guest/host.


joe727

Cornette also usually refers to Last when it comes to do with anything from Japan/Poruresu. That's an area what Corny doesn't really have much knowledge on. Last seems to know a lot about 80's/90's All Japan.


wote89

To be fair, the only material a traditional historian doesn't need to look up generally is stuff they've worked with a lot. Part of being a good historian is knowing how to quickly and reliably lay hands on something you need rather than just knowing everything. :P


Mr_Snub

Brian Last knows his stuff, and has more or less become Cornette's protege when it comes to the history of professional wrestling.


grade-A-benchwarmer

brian last represents quite a bit of the cornette listners on those podcasts... there are times when jim goes over the top on shitting on stuff and typically when I dont agree brian chimes in with a "naw"


xBesto

He says that quite a lot. "I don't have a problem with it like you do..." has been spoken quite a lot from Last lol. Dumb shit, is dumb shit and their brutal honesty of AEW, WWE and even impact is what keeps me coming back lol


orangemachismo

> and even impact Last night I watched No Way Jose lead a conga line, including Fallah Bah, to interrupt a match and ensure TJP's bet at Johnny Bravo's underground casino cashed.


xBesto

Yeah exactly haha 😆


Infinite-Surprise-53

Riveting television


BuckBacon

I don't even care, I still love No Way Jose and would watch every minute of him fucking up a cash-in with a conga line


Matto5000

He doesn't disagree. He lets in known like he will state " i didnt mind this" but he don't go into too much detail. I have watch jim since 2011 hes funny and i like his opinion not all his fans want him shitting on everything.


SexyTimeDoe

I dont think he's all too reticent about speaking his mind. More that he understands the podcast is about Jim and not Brian


vmartin96

The great Brian Last


FeetsBeneets

Hawaiian Brian the Podcasting Lion, the King of the Arcadian Vanguard? MISTER Co-Host to you! Swami's Pappy the former Post Office Playboy THE Great Brian Last?!


Doyoubleedyouwill

As much as he shits in AEW cornette can’t even get thru watching an entire wwe show. It was only a matter of time before he got around to praising them. He doesn’t love everything about them but he seems to be coming around to it with time


frasierfonzie

Cornette might've been positive before, but Tony's Bobby Eaton tribute seemed to really touch Cornette.


ScreechingEels

That and I think he felt a small amount of responsibility for that fan running in on Jericho, even though he did nothing to instigate it. Both instances show the best side of Cornette. He’s rough around the edges, is often pretty crude and a little out of touch with times, but at the core I really do think his heart is in the right place. And as it’s been said millions of times, he’s got a library of wrestling history in his head.


Dango_Fett

Felt responsible? Did you listen to his response after Meltzer accused him? He went absolutely nuclear.


whalepopcorn

AEW is going to surpass WWE, yeah I see it now BUT I STILL HATE THOSE BUCKS


AgentFoo

So he's basically J. Jonah Jameson at this point. "I don't care if Spider-Man saved my life, **I still hate him!**"


KTheOneTrueKing

> Cornette has been very pro lately besides elite stuff Besides the parts of the show that draw the most money and viewers.


conbon7

I think he is a Britt baker fan


LittleGuy825

He is. It’s against everything the Elite does, anything with Japanese women, and absolutely anything with Marco Stunt, Orange Cassidy or Jericho (him only really the past year, was on board with him at first.). Oh and he hates Chuck Taylor.


frickatornado

I mean, Jericho hasn't really done anything recently to justify his position. His matches are getting sloppier and sloppier, and this MJF feud has overstayed its welcome by about 6 months.


LittleGuy825

You just echoed everything he says about him basically.


frickatornado

It's a shame too because I love Jericho's work, and I think he could really excel in a manager type role with occasional ring work. He's great with promos, I just don't think his body can keep up with it and he's trying to hold on too hard.


BlueSkylark93

maybe if he takes some time off and gets into shape he could get cleaner in the ring again


AJAnimosity

I don’t see him putting down the Grey Goose anytime soon. This is coming from someone who has been an absolute mark for Y2J since 1997 Conspiracy Victim Jericho - Brian Last is 100% correct in him being a leech. All he has done is suck heat from OC and MJF. I personally don’t like OC, but Jericho’s feud with him just…sucked. And then we got the MJF program, and he sucked all of the essence of what I wanted to see in MJF away for almost a full year, only to end in a match that wasn’t that great, and Y2J going over. He really needs to hang it up. He’s slow, sloppy, and out of shape. And an alcoholic potentially. His eyes CONSTANTLY have the look of someone who either needs a drink, or is drunk. My dad was an alcoholic and I -know- those looks. It’s very very sad for me to watch, I loved him so much for so long, and all he’s doing is hurting his legacy at this point.


MarkyLosChe

I remember when the Jericho-Cornette beef first started, Jim was actually holding it back in the beginning due to their positive relationship in the past. But Last once just eviscerated Jericho with such precision in a rant, it would give Cornette a run for his money. I wonder if he was never a big Jericho fan. Also, I'm on the same boat with you. Been a Jerichoholic for so long and it hurts to see him now. Especially when you see how much many of the other wrestlers around his age are keeping it together


MartyRocket

I kind of wonder if he just wants to live the rock star lifestyle, and just work on his music, but he feels committed to AEW? I've been a Chris Jericho fan for as long as you have, and I haven't watched any AEW (I barely watch WWE, despite it being more accessible to me) what I have seen of Chris Jericho now is kind of sad. It's like, you don't have anything to prove; why are you putting yourself out there like this? If he wants to, then that's great, but he does look like he's struggling, and it's too bad.


Waxtron

Quitting drinking would be gigantic for Jericho. If he quit drinking & put that energy into fitness, he would be a lot better in the ring. That tag match he had against Luther a while back was sad. Both of them were trying to do moves they clearly weren’t capable of doing.


LittleGuy825

He’s 50 he’s as good as he’s going to get. One of the funnier things Cornette does is point out where he’s taking shortcuts in matches because he’s gassed.


Abyssalstar

I understand the whole point of the feud was to put MJF over as much as possible, to pass the torch to the 'next Jericho', but it did go on for too long.


chilloutfam

I guess I agree that it went on for too long, but only by a few weeks... The feud needed to end after the 5th labor, and not the third match.


kenssmith

The feud ended with Jericho winning it, which didn't put MJF over the way it should've. MJF continues to be a vile heel that ALMOST wins


j_infamous

And what is weird about that is that they put a crew around him that was literally supposed to remind you of the horsemen. I think MJF should have won that feud. I dont think it will hurt him in the long run but people wont forget that he didnt win it.


drunkentenshiNL

MJF is 3 to 1 against Jericho, put him through hell, has the heel heat of even "beating" him at All Out, and has the excuse of extra ref taking his 4th win away. I agree that the 5th trail should have been MJF with a proper build instead of a second fight, but let's be honest here, MJF came out of this with a massive rub.


kingofphilly

In what way? He had that “rub” from the first six months of this thing. Getting thrown into a pool, his head flushed down the toilet, that was all storytelling like it or not. What exactly did he gain from losing at the end of this? It’s not like Jericho needed the win and what fans did it send home happy?


Jreynold

He's still one of a handful of ratings draws they have, and let's not pretend the 5 Labours weren't an exciting thing to look forward to every week


Waxtron

I like AEW. I really enjoy watching it… except for the Elite. Everything they do is garbage. It’s like a worse version of WWE. WWE has been completely unwatchable for years.


dBlock845

Strong correlation with ratings going up and Marko Stunt not wrestling on Dynamite lol.


BaronVonStevie

I don't understand why people think Cornette doesn't want AEW to succeed. He does. He doesn't like what he sees for the most part. That's fine. That reflects the fact that Cornette knows the wrestling business and Tony is still learning it. Tony is acting out of a fan's perspective which is understandable. He's a very clever fan, but at this point he's going to show what he doesn't understand more than what he does. But Cornette, for all of his faults, is pro pro wrestling.


Candid_Two_6977

Cornette latest comments on the WWE v AEW are worth listening to. He concludes that Vince either doesn't care anymore or wants to sell - it is his only reason why they'd let top talent more or less walk to a rival. Pointed out AEW is now keeping and growing their audience and, if it continues, will be a problem for the WWE. "The worm has turned" is what he kept saying over and over.


GongShowJ03

*stands up in Taz* Im sicka this love fest


SomedudecalledDan

EY, SHOW! HEY GONGSHOWJ03! HEY! OVER HERE! I'M TALKINAYU!


The__Thesaurus__Rex

Such a weird start to Punk’s next angle.


rid_aman

*bruddah*


SeparateBookkeeper19

Here’s the deal, Jim was excited that a new promotion was coming and he and tony had talks but there is a nda on the talks so Jim couldn’t spill the beans not that he would, but it seems likely he taught him about the great 8 and the underneath 8 and the 6 tag teams as well as saying build around punk if you can get him. More personally I think they get on if wrestling isn’t mentioned it’s just when Jim goes off on one he doesn’t hold back and is very emotional because it’s a business he’s had friends die and be crippled in etc and he takes it seriously that’s not to say he hasn’t booked or been part of things you’d say are fun or funny it’s only when things happen that expose the business and wink to the camera that’s when he gets mad because it’s like you expose and expose it soon there will be nothing left and the art of story telling in wrestling will be lost forever. It’s easy enough to have a spot fest but to build a match to a pop is much more valuable in the long run. They have a difference of opinions of loads of stuff, but anyone who thinks Jim actually wishes harm to anyone isn’t aware he’s shooting, and if you ask me the other side seem to get away with much more when it comes to firing at cornette, trying to get him cancelled etc the bottom line is it’s sad these two can’t get together, it’s more on Jim’s side a. He is retired and won’t travel etc and won’t be involved with anyone who’s wrestled a blow up doll or kids etc which is fair enough. I’d say if in the future the bucks and omega were to move on, not likely but possible even though they’re vps I seriously think they’d be able to work together even if it was over Skype ffs Jim’s brain has a lot to offer and god someone’s gotta take that knowledge and be able to use it against Vince. But imagine if Vince since he has Bruce and ace back makes a play for corny lol that’d be funny


cooljammer00

Like any smart promoter, you need to have knowledge of the past to know what NOT to do. Avoid the mistakes of those before you.


KneeLiftCity

This is supposed to be what *history in general* is for.


yorstex

Looking at you, Dixie


ShinsukeNakamoto

Cornette went 4 steps past toxic and I quit listening to him for good after the first Stadium Stampede, but let me tell you something. There is nothing I want more in all of professional wrestling than FTR jumping the Young Bucks backstage right before Cornette appears from around the corner and lays both the Bucks out with a tennis racket. Literally nothing. I'll preorder the next 4 AEW pay per views on the spot.


embanot

Where did the whole tennis racquet gimmick come from?


ShinsukeNakamoto

Cornette's original gimmick was his rich mom paid wrestlers to be with him, or something like, and a tennis racket seemed like something a spoiled rich kid would have. Plus he could beat fans off of him with him, which was necessary back then.


Calicarno

He still has a tennis racket that he used to KO a "fan" who came at his tag team. It would be fun to see him bring it out. https://youtu.be/zAGnn-NLNm8 1:38


ShinsukeNakamoto

What I would pay to spend a week in that room with him showing me everything in it and telling me the story behind each item.


juliansegura

*Football field fuckery* FTFY


Cannonfury

Jim doesnt like 100 mph matches and no selling, is what it boils down to. Also dumb stuff like wrestlers standing outside the ring waiting and positioning themselves for someone to jump from the top rope onto them. In the All Out review he mentioned the spot where one lucha bro jumped and splashed his brother and the bucks. He mentioned how the lucha brother who took the splash got the brunt of it but jumped right up while the bucks sold it.


RoadsterIsHere

I agreed with that. It would've been so much cooler if Penta held them in-place, and was laid out too with the splash. He would be sacrificing himself so that Fenix can crawl over and get the pin. I thought it was silly that he took the splash but the Friendly Fire settings were on so whilst the Bucks die, he just pops up.


darthsabbath

That was my biggest problem with the match… I get why people liked it. They did some incredible things. But so much of it just didn’t make sense, even accounting for wrestling being absurd to begin with. Maybe I over think this shit, but things like that take me out of the match. Nobody’s saying don’t do cool high flying moves. Just do them in a way that makes sense. You could keep the same basic idea of that match, almost the same moves and everything and make it better. Like imagine if we had Bucks vs Lucha Bros with the psychology and logic of WALTER vs Ilja.


GOR098

The whole match was a barrage of spots. There was hardly any story in it. I didn't watch it live. But I read comments on reddit and was looking forward to it. But it was quite tiring and disappointing. Punk vs Darby match, now that was proper pro wrestling.


Matto5000

The rumors he watches jim cornette on youtube are true. Some fanboys will hate that


WeatherWrestlingGuy

Jim and Brian were discussing if TK listened to the podcast and honestly? I bet he does. It’s good for him. And I’m starting to like Tony a lot more these days.


thesch

TK playing 4d chess. He's gonna kill Cornette with kindness so Cornette starts feeling more and more guilty for ripping AEW and then he'll eventually get to the point where he's positive about it every week.


gchdmi

I disagree. I think he's being genuine. No matter what anyone feels about Cornette's conduct, his opinions on wrestling matter, even if you disagree with his preferences. Listening to Cornette as constructive criticism is beneficial; there is no growth without constant pressure to improve. We've seen what happens when someone only listens to praise... Recently, AEW has greatly improved in the areas many older fans, like myself, have wanted. Headlocks are held with intensity, strikes look more believable, and Irish whips are of a higher quality. Storylines have also been more cogent. AEW only gets better when small details improve, and Cornette has been on these things since day one. He's never been wrong, but rather, far too crass to effectively communicate to everyone.


RelativeStranger

How much of that is down to listening to cornette and how much is down to the likes of Jerry Lynn, Dean Malenko, Sting, Christian Cage and now CM Punk being part of the team helping younger wrestlers. A year ago Jungle Boy had his indy training and he was working with the Bucks or the Lucha Bros. Now he's still working with the Bucks but also with FTR and Christian or even Matt Hardy. He's obviously going to learn from them.


aggr1103

You cannot deny that the AEW product has changed from its inception. I'm sure Cornette's attitude towards AEW has softened because of that. I also believe that AEW's handling of legends, as well as how they handled Brodie's and Bobby Eaton's passing, had a tremendous impact on Cornette's attitude towards both Tony and AEW as a whole. I don't think Jim is ever going to particularly like the Bucks or Omega, though.


Enickma007

I agree as well, there are plenty of people out there criticizing Tony, but he’s only really mentioned Cornette, and I don’t think that’s a coincidence. Tony is probably able to put up a filter and take in a lot of the constructive things Jim says and disregard the nonsense (you said it absolutely perfectly, he’s far too crass to effectively communicate). I don’t listen to Jim anywhere near as much as I used to, for a lot of the obvious reasons. I don’t think he should be running a major promotion anymore, either. But I definitely think there’s thoughts and ideas he has, based on a lifetime of experience in the industry, that have value. I really think Tony was genuine too.


ExodusDeveloper

Honestly, that's probably why AEW is so damn successful: Tony doesn't try to listen to Yes-Men, which is why he values Cornette's opinion. You can argue WWE is shit because Vince is surrounded by nothing but Yes-Men (even though Vince wouldn't listen to begin with)


Corac42

if tk doesn't like yes men then why did he hire daniel bryan


jimmi_vandelay

He hired bryan danielson


CaptainReptillian

>I disagree. I think he's being genuine. > >No matter what anyone feels about Cornette's conduct, his opinions on wrestling matter, even if you disagree with his preferences. Listening to Cornette as constructive criticism is beneficial; there is no growth without constant pressure to improve. We've seen what happens when someone only listens to praise... > >Recently, AEW has greatly improved in the areas many older fans, like myself, have wanted. Headlocks are held with intensity, strikes look more believable, and Irish whips are of a higher quality. Storylines have also been more cogent. AEW only gets better when small details improve, and Cornette has been on these things since day one. He's never been wrong, but rather, far too crass to effectively communicate to everyone. Precisely if you tear away the anger and vitriol you will find that Jim is generally correct about how to present top level pro wrestling. There's plenty of room for comedy but the product especially the title scenes should be taken and presented seriously. How can the fans invest if the talent isn't taking it seriously or treating it like a joke. I see way too much wrestling especially on the Indy scene where the wrestlers are treating it like a joke in the ring and on social media


toodarkmark

Hes being real. He talked about his watching and admiration of Smokey Mountain Wrestling before Cornette became Anti-AEW Troll #1. But I do think killing enemies with kindness can work at times.


Phenomenal_Hoot

I think Cornette really came around on AEW when they showed Bobby Eaton a heap of respect after his passing. I think Jim respected and loved Bobby so much it was a major thing to him that Tony Khan reached out to the family.


Hrafhildr

Or Tony is just being genuine about his own opinions and feelings about someone. I'm no Tony Khan mark clearly but I think he was just being honest.


Step-UpEnzuigiri

Exactly what I was thinking. Also, you can never lose taking the high road. Makes the other person look unhinged by comparison


DoinItDirty

Tony undercuts his original growth. I used to get frustrated and the problems AEW fans overlooked, but Tony had worked hard to fix those. Production might still be somewhat of an issue, but Tony has solved 90% of the problems I’ve had with the way that company was promoted. He’s humble, but he’s done well.


IvanPFreely

Didn’t Tony and Vince also have some very off the record chats at some point? I may be remembering wrong but I thought Tony had said something along the lines of, yeah of course I took advice from the guy doing this the biggest and best for decades. But he wouldn’t go much more into it than that.


Isoturius

Vince was probably super open to it. He was kind of disappointed they didn't ask him advice about All In haha


2WAR

"September is not a good month for PPVs pal!"


MarkyLosChe

Yeah Jericho mentioned it to Vince that Cody and Bucks were planning for All In and he said he wish they consulted him since Fall is the worst time for promotion


FishnBIcycle

Tony and Vince have never met, I don't think. You might be thinking of Cody - he spoke to Vince about it, I believe.


SillyDillySwag

I'm pretty sure TK has said he's never spoken to him.


FigureFourWoo

I'm sure Tony Khan was a little hurt by Cornette's initial take on AEW, because realistically, there may not even *be* an AEW without Cornette. Tony Khan had numerous conversations with Jim Cornette about starting a wrestling promotion, and they even came up with a list of names, with CM Punk at the top of the list. The division in their ideology came when Tony Khan decided to go forward with the new wrestling promotion and make The Elite the centerpiece of it. Cornette really hated The Elite, but after All In, it was pretty clear that they brought everything to the table that Tony Khan needed to build a wrestling promotion. From the things Cody learned from Dusty to the top tag team and best wrestler in the world in the form of The Young Bucks and Kenny Omega.


Isoturius

That combination of talent was so good. Young Bucks is your A tagteam, Kenny is the the A wrestler, Cody is the mouthpiece with business savvy and ambition for days, a future top guy in Hangman, and one of the all time greats in Chris Jericho. Then you take into account Mox wound up available and the youth they were able to get. It's incredible. The stars really aligned for Tony.


FigureFourWoo

It would have taken a perfect storm for a wrestling company to succeed, and AEW was the perfect storm.


skeach101

On the X-Axis that is "Sports Entertainment" <-------> "Pro Wrestling", Tony and Jim aren't that far apart... but for some reason there is this Y-Axis that keeps them far apart. I don't know what that Y-Axis is...


AcusTwinhammer

The way I look at it, with kayfabe being pretty much dead and all... Cornette wants you to watch a match and it be good enough that you forget it's "fake." The Bucks/OC/etc want you to watch a match and it be good enough that you don't care that it's "fake."


RxngsXfSvtvrn

very good point my friend well put


2WAR

Territory Style Wrestling <------------> Indy Wrestling


mrandre3000

The Y Axis probably is probably either Size / Match Pacing. Cornette is closer to Vince, in my opinion, on how wrestling matches should be paced, structured and who should be in the match. They also don’t like too many Gimmicks. Vince only kept most gimmick matches post-attitude era because it sold tickets to shows and leans towards the sport entertainment part of wrestling axis. Their personal preferences IMO go back to the origins of old school wrestling when the cards first started being fixed with local talent in the early 1900s. Tony is not a polar opposite and probably closer to the center/middle on the Y axis. The polar opposite of Cornette is balls to the wall fast paced cruiserweights, small guys hitting big moves. This style got popular as Lucha spread from Mexico throughout the World starting in the late 60’s and has various regional adaptations. ECW, 2006-2008 X Division or local IWTV Indies are mostly the exact opposite of what Vince & Cornette prefer in wrestling.


dallasw3

Cornette doesn’t seem to mind fast-paced cruiserweights; he’s waxed poetic about Tiger Mask and Dynamite Kid many times on his show, and he loved Jericho, Storm, Guerrero, etc. I think he’s looking for more structure, logic, and believability. And old-style way to look at it is to not use main event moves or sequences on undercard matches. A card is supposed to be structured to peak at the main event, but if two underneath guys have used every spectacular high spot imaginable in their match it can deflate the crowd for the rest of the night and cool off your main event. Also, certain moves/spots lose their novelty if done too frequently, with dives being a good example currently. They used to be a lot less common and were a big spot; now they’re common and less meaningful. High spots for the sake of high spots, instead of making sense or telling a story, seem to be what he’s more averse to than simply a fast-paced style.


ef14

Cornette's style of wrestling is exactly the kind of match Punk wrestled with Darby. I haven't listened to his thoughts yet, mind you, but i can almost guarantee he's raved about it. Slow, methodical, with heavy emphasis on old school psychology.


Iweloz

lol you got it. He literally said Punk-Darby was the only wrestling match on the show!!


kac937

To add to your point Cornette doesn’t even necessarily love the same guys that Vince does. Vince is known to predominantly prefer very tall, very big guys. Cornette just thinks you should LOOK like a credible threat in a real fight. Daniel Bryan and Rey Mysterious for example are both are well below 6 feet but they look like they could hold their own in an actual fight. I tend to agree with that aside from a few guys who transcend that (adam cole, cm punk, etc)


TheFinnishChamp

Cornette still greatly prefers bigger guys, like all old school wrestling people. But he doesn't have a thing for bodybuilders specifically like Vince. Cornette was a huge fan of Bronson Reed and Vince clearly didn't see anything in the guy.


skeach101

I think Size would work... or just a more broad: "Modern Wrestler" vs. "Traditional Wrestler" I think Gedo would also be closer to the "Traditional Wrestler" side honestly.... I think DDT would be closer to Modern. AEW I think would LEAN Modern, but not as far as DDT.


mrandre3000

You hit the nail on the head. The problem is what point is considered the time stamp for modern? The death of WCW/ECW? The spread of Lucha in the 80s? The rise of the modern indie or deathmatch wrestling? I think there’s a number of broad strokes that make that Y axis hard to pinpoint.


Pyotr_WrangeI

Rise of modern indies, perhaps PWG in particular, Cornette would probably absolutely hate some of the most famous pwg matches


samuelbassett

The Y-Axis is psychology, very likely selling holds versus working to/through spots.


2WAR

>small guys hitting big moves This is his biggest gripe with how the show is structured. He doesn't mind if this happens so as long as the moves mean something. How can Ray Fenix jump off the cage into a bodyslam and not kill your opponent? while on the same show a move much weaker than that is a finisher.


darthsabbath

And big guys doing flippy moves too. Like okay it’s cool to see Keith Lee or whatever do a 920° twisting senton, but wtf does that leave your cruisers to do? It looks much more impactful when a big guy does it too so it makes your small guy’s finisher look weak in comparison. Even worse when someone kicks out of the big guy’s flippy shit.


itinerant_gs

It's an aspect of the program that is *heavily* overlooked, and I don't think that anyone can produce any evidence to counter it. On a given Dynamite, how many Tope's do you think we get per match? Some weeks we see several per match, and occasionally even *per wrestler*!. How many matches on a given Dynamite go outside the ring? Are there *ever* matches that fully stay inside? I think AEW has done a fantastic job of not having endless DQ's or roll-ups or distractions, and have faith that these things will be ironed out in the future - but Corny being critical of it shouldn't get people up in arms.


_Ka_Tet_

The Y axis is logic. Smaller wrestlers are fine, if they look like they can fight. High flying is fine, as long as it doesn't look phony. Comedy is fine, as long as it's in its place and doesn't make the wrestling look silly. The through line in all this is to use logic to make sure that shit doesn't look fake or silly.


2WAR

Darby Allin, the smallest of the bunch is the most credible cause his shit looks good!


LilBitATheBubbly

Jim shares that opinion , it isn't a size issue with him, it's 100% a logic or suspension of disbelief issue. For example, he hated the Fenix spot off the cage that landed on the Bucks and Penta because it took the Bucks down but Penta, who arguable recieved the brunt of the fall, popped right back up after. Or the obviously choreographed spots that seemed to have lessened there in time.


RelativeStranger

Cornette loves Darby Allen tbf


guylfe

And Cornette appropriately really likes him.


cc0011

Being a raging bellend <--------> Not being a raging bellend??


bayleysgal1996

That’s the one.


rohrst

His first sentence really is true. Cornette has still bashed stuff he doesn't like but has also credited AEW and Khan on some of the decisions he has made in the last 2-4 weeks. That's pretty new for Cornette. I think he is rooting for AEW because it opens up an alternative for people to work and make money at. He would never admit that though.


cooljammer00

At the beginning, him and JR would get into Twitter arguments about AEW. I remember JR once wrote something like "It's kids who love wrestling trying to make a living in the business. It's not unlike us 40 years ago." and obviously Cornette was too angry to listen.


Panlore

I think that's the most infuriating part about Cornette. Back in the 80s, the old guys, like Cornette is now, said the same things about Bobby Eaton, The Rock and Roll Express, and those high flyers of the era. The fact he refuses to see/accept that is frustrating. Because when he deconstructs a match, there is constructive criticism that is interesting to hear but is overshadowed because he can't get over Omega, The Bucks, Lucha Bros, Joshi, etc. I think this why JR is so valuable to AEW, because while he has his "old man yells at sky moments," he also understands that this thing is working for the target demo and his critique is there to help.


MarkyLosChe

Not just those 80s wrestlers. Veterans when freakin Harley Race started called him a fool cause he used to be one of the few that went on top of ropes for offense. They thought it would expose the business


EldenRingworm

And I'm sure Cornette absolutely loved the Punk match. That was classic wrestling


Random_Hero1989

I still say the real money in an FTR vs Bucks feud is having Cornette on the mic.


MoneyMo88

The stuff AEW is doing with Dan Lambert right now would work so much better if Jim Cornette were in that role.


Scottyflamingo

The money in an FTR vs Bucks feud is having more than one match.


quietude38

Unless AEW is running Freedom Hall and he gets to potato the “Hardly Boys” with an actual loaded racquet I don’t think he would do it.


mrcrazymexican

Tony Khan would be hard to hate. Seems like he really cares of the people he's involved with and the impact he makes with them. I love how much of a awkward nerd he is. It's just endearing to see someone like that. Dude has a big heart and it must be hard to not want to follow that kind of leader.


lucabrassiere

He said some good things about the Punk/Darby match then was basically saying the rest of the roster needs to catch on and I actually agree with that. They obviously took some things from Bret Hart/1-2-3 Kid in that match and that’s something every wrestler should be doing - learning about ring psychology from the greats. An entire generation of kids grew up wanting to be Shawn instead of Bret and it’s lead to a watered down product where the wrestlers can do the most craziest spots but it rarely means anything because there’s very little psychology behind it. If TK takes anything away from Corny, I hope it’s importance of ring psychology. They need to put more emphasis on that - there’s no excuses not to when you’ve got Jake The Snake Roberts on your roster!


CaptainReptillian

Bret/123 kid had near perfect psychology. Kid was a plucky underdog with his share of losses and Bret made us believe that kid had a chance


The_Fresh_Factor

He mentioned this in his own way on the post All-Out media scrum at the end. He spoke about someone he looked up to who, and I'm paraphrasing here, "wouldn't want to take credit for being my mentor" (in terms of AEW)


thedirtyharryg

Hate on Cornette all you want (even he admits he's an asshole...) I personally have learned more about wrestling history/business/philosophy, listening to Cornette, than just about anywhere else combined.


Middle_Cyclone

Cornette just really hates the Bucks and Omega. Listening to him talk about them and all his nicknames is hilarious.


MarkyLosChe

My most favorite Cornette insult is when he called Russo "The Archbishop of Talentbury" Also he used to call Miro "Bulgarian Bluto" when he was doing the gamer gimmick


randy_maverick

Off the top of my head: Twinkletoes McFingerbang/Harpo Fingerfuck (Kenny), The Cucamonga Kids (the Bucks), Brandon Cutlet (Cutler), Penthouse and Felix (Lucha Bros), Don Phallus (Callis), Michael Knock It The Fuck Off (Nakazawa), Pip Sabian (Kip), Uncle Fester (Luther), The Butcher, The Baker and the Candlestick Maker (Butcher, Blade and Bunny), Kris Flatline-der (Statlander), Andre Oliolio (Andrade), Chris Jericovid (Jericho), and others I could think of if I kept trying, lol.


Middle_Cyclone

Pretty good. Only thing I can remember that you forgot was the Hardly Boys for the Bucks. And one of the Bucks in particular is Balding Buck.


randy_maverick

Pie Face and Balding, lol


xtralongleave

Can’t forget Jelly Nutella.


Yourponydied

There's also the factory witch spell "Comorotoooooo, sooooloooooww, ogoooogooooo"


mattbakerrr

Kenny Olivier, Dork Order, Excrement, Dino Dongsucker, Pockets. This is fun!


superman_was_taken

I'll have you know it's Dwarf Dongsucker and Dinodouche!


FecalFunBunny

As a fan of both AEW and Cornette, I can see why Tony Khan would say things like this. Cornette, in spite of disagreeing with a lot of how AEW presents and books itself, still has a valid vein of thought and feedback considering his years of experience. Does Cornette have a bias against say the Japanese style/influences on wrestling? Yes, because he was booking a lot of Southern style for decades and became centric to a lot of those influences. He does forget that the reason for the success of someone like Jericho is to take aspects of every style/influence and learn to mix it with yourself. That is part of the reason why Khan is being successful with AEW. He is allowing consideration for all levels of the card to be not as set in style/tone at times. But, there are also many cases where I don't think Khan booked/allowed the events to transpire properly either. And I think both the fans and the talent all know this. Especially for the talent at all levels, you may not like what Cornette says about what you do but listen to the reasons why he does. You definitely don't have to agree with them, but consider them feedback from another experienced segement of your target audience.


Madness_In_A_Cup

That's kinda funny because my favorite criticism he does of TK is "he's not a rEaL booker!" like all the bookers of the past had these serious credentials. You gotta get your bachelor's at booking school with a minor in the economics of paying talent with blow/painkillers before you can be a REAL booker to Jim.


coolseraz

You also earn extra credits by having disdain towards fans.


Emil_M_Antonowsky

A lot, but not all, of old bookers did have various jobs in wrestling before they were owning and running their own promotion. There is a legitimate difference there. As to how influential or important it is, I have no idea.


jesusisjustalright

Sounds like a course you'd take at Greendale.


guiltycitizen

Tony doesn't have a mean bone in his body, does he?


LafilduPoseidon

Well there was that time Fulham had a bad start to the Premier League and he threw the starting defenders under the bus


AlabastarRastar

That's just long term storytelling for the eventual Tim Ream world title run.


Pawikowski

When he sees the PPV buys he's gonna grow a mean bone.


2020IsANightmare

I think a lot of uninformed (younger, just don't know wrestling history, whatever the case) fans think Cornette is doing an act on his podcasts. Jim has been like that for, what, 30-40 years? Publicly. In writing (him sending letters to the Observer, etc.) He's going to tell you how he feels, why he feels that way, what you should do to yourself and is probably going to scream while doing it.


ShadowTehEdgehog

Cornette legit being that way behind the scenes is why he's been fired from or left on bad terms from just about every job or business relationship he's ever had.


scottfultonlive

Great guy Tony. Not a mark for himself.


HerissonG

Very smart thing to say by Tony. I love this man.


TheJimNeidhartTable

As someone who hasn't listened to Jim in a while or watched any wrestling for a while, let me say, this seems crazy. From an out of the loop perspective. Crazy good however, because Khan should have bones to pick with Jim for some of the shit he's said, by god has it been funny, but very slanderous. It's nice to see and hear that AEW are getting better and Cornette is starting to enjoy it more. I think everyone involved in AEW has a good amount they can input to change the game for the better, where Cornette would probably disagree. Yet, he himself would have a lot to say that if put into motion, could help AEW better their product from an in-ring and production stand point. Not that I'm suggesting they work together, but their very beings are compatible in this world together. The extremes of both ends of the spectrum.


TheKareemofWheat

TK showing him the class Cornette refuses to show him even after he trashes his promotion and talent.


Huderich

That's really my biggest issue with him. Not the stuff he dislikes or hates. But the guy has absolutely 0 class.


work4work4work4work4

If I had to say the rarest thing in professional wrestling up until the modern day has been actual elegance in behavior. Agree or disagree with his opinions, the guy is blunt as a hammer and just as ready to bash what you put in front of him.


SleestakLightning

Cornette was one of the people TK went to for advice when he was starting AEW so I don't doubt for a second that he's being sincere here.