T O P

Brandon Thurston about this week's Smackdown/Rampage fast nationals : Conspicuous to say the least the demo reached reporters today and 2 other weeks earlier this month but not last week when the story was less favorable to WWE.

Brandon Thurston about this week's Smackdown/Rampage fast nationals : Conspicuous to say the least the demo reached reporters today and 2 other weeks earlier this month but not last week when the story was less favorable to WWE.

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esteel20

Yeah, ol Alfred getting the fast nationals this week removed any doubt I had about how reporters were getting them.


Prince_of_Kyrgyzstan

Guess who was the agent of Darren Rovell, who also got the fast nationals and touted the great victory for WWE without having an ounce of wrestling knowledge, for many years in the past? Nick Khan.


esteel20

This is how WWE will operate during this "war". They'll do stuff like this behind the scenes while saying publicly that AEW isn't on their radar.


Independent-Set-8850

And WWE fans will eat it up and use the official stance to justify saying AEW means nothing to WWE, regardless of how much evidence there is.


VScWayne

It works to a certain extent too. I swear I saw people last week saying that Vince might not even have know that AEW has a show on Fridays LMAO


Independent-Set-8850

You get two types of WWE fans I find. The first are all in on WWE and know absolutely nothing about the business or any other company and so to them, wrestling is WWE only. The second are obsessively devoted to WWE, so much so they will lie or twist facts to suit their agenda of defending WWE at all costs against anything someone else enjoys that isn't WWE. Of course other companies have toxic fans too but hardcore WWE fans are some of the most illogical and toxic people I have ever seen defend a thing before. Worse than video game fanboys by quite a bit and that's saying something.


OmegaJad

I love how some toxic wwe fans say that AEW doesn't matter but they talk almost more about AEW than WWE. If AEW meant nothing to them they would talk about AEW as much as they talk about ROH, MLW or Impact which means they would never talk about it.


smartyr228

And AEW will continue to put on a better and more rewarding product


lupinosaurus

Bingo. It’s the most transparently disingenuous nonsense when folks try to pull the “both sides are taking shots!!!” card. WWE is doing all this underhanded stuff, and AEW, for the most part, is just putting on good shows and puffing up their successes.


BeerPressure615

Im sure that if anyone has an idea of what type of games WWE are playing it would be AEW. Which may be why TK feels more and more emboldened to come back harder every time. Considering the cohesiveness of the locker room it can't be too difficult to bring them together and hype them up. I bet he gives Paul Heyman/ECW style speeches to the roster at each ppv and it seems to work because every one is better a bit better than the last.


Julius-n-Caesar

Do you want them to say they are? Sure, it’d be hilarious but other than that?


Yosonimbored

Both fanbases fall into that category but it’s obvious both companies want to be on top of the other. To me nothing matters until AEW tries to go head to head with them on Monday or a full Friday and then it will actually be a “war”


Kinterlude

I've said it before and I'll say it again; the idea of going head to head is fucking stupid. No one benefits from that and they split viewership. It's funny, and I doubt Vince remembers this, but that was one of his strong arguments during the billionaire Ted sketches. He blatantly put forward that it makes no sense to try and kill competition by trying to go head to head. This was Vince's own argument against the much bigger WCW machine. Funny how we've gone full circle.


Independent-Set-8850

AEW fans will admit that WWE is competition because they are. They may not air at the same time anymore but they compete on talent and also in terms of what is good wrestling. WWE have been the defacto wrestling company for decades and to the average person, wrestling is WWE. AEW have to compete with that idea and convince people who aren't already open to a new product, that wrestling can be done differently and be just as good, if not better.


BeerPressure615

>it’s obvious both companies want to be on top of the other. Anyone who says any different hasn't spent a day in a capitalist society. That's the entire name of the game and these are two billionaires. Why wouldn't they.


Yosonimbored

Some people act like it’s one sided with WWE but if Tony Khan had like 84weeks of beating WWE did like Eric did he’d be pushing that to the moon. They’ll say competition is good but if one of them could crush the other they’d 100% want that


NotOneStraw

And you know that how? Oh right, you don't have a clue about what's going to happen tomorrow let alone 83 weeks from now.


Yosonimbored

Nope but I never said I did but if AEW crushed WWE for 82/83 weeks you don’t think Kahn would make a big deal about it?


NotOneStraw

No idea. Do you know why? Because I can't fucking see the future.


BeerPressure615

Agreed. Competition is definitely good. It's gotten us the past two years and wrestling as a whole has gotten better almost every week. If one could knee cap the other they absolutely would though.


resolve028

Pretty much all of ESPN is in the bag for Nick Khan because CAA is the agency for almost all of their talent.


Colt-0

This is like the main reason Tony replied specifically to Rovell last week, it was a direct shot at Nick. Also people seem to think Nick doesn't give a fuck about this war or the perception thereof, when he himself has said he is on social media and sees much of the stuff that goes on which everyone took to mean that he has a burner. People need to understand that just because one side "says" they don't care, their every action says otherwise, you should believe what they do and not what they say.


VScWayne

They refused to even acknowledge WCW’s existence until months after they were already kicking their ass. This is the way they operate.


cerial442

I remember when ECW invaded Raw and the bWo showed up. Jerry Lawler said the group was just a rip off. To which Paul Heyman replied, “a rip off of what?” There was a moment of awkward silence then Vince finally said, “the nWo clothing line”.


CandyEverybodyWentz

I didn't know that guy was notable enough to even *have* an agent.


NeeraTanden420

Alfred Konuwa comparing Rampage fast nationals to the final rating from last week (making it look significantly worse) but comparing Smackdown fast nationals to fast nationals (making smackdown look more successful). So he is either completely full of shit or a complete dumbass.


rexmundi69

He has an agenda and is also a complete dumbass.


manonthemoon905

why not both?


16intheclip

Considering his twitter feed was so abysmal that he is one of the very few people I have blocked on that app, I'd wager both are true.


Gamesgtd

I like him for his support of black wrestlers. That's very important to him and it's very important to me.


manonthemoon905

his support of black wrestlers is pandering bullshit. it's not really that important to him and he doesn't actually care, he's transparently race-baiting lol


Gamesgtd

Based on what? Not saying your wrong but nothing I've seen suggested that.


45jayhay

I feel you but I think he muddies the convo because he wants black male wrestlers specifically in the main event. When a lot of us just want to see effort in building black stars .


Gamesgtd

That's fair on both accounts. Because It was so rare until recently I always just felt whatever. But black wrestlers are so talented these days it just feels weird if they aren't main eventers.


Bellagrrl2021

He's not. He isn't making his point in the best way, but that doesn't mean that he is wrong.


manonthemoon905

Agree to disagree. Maybe he's not technically "wrong" on the surface, but when you take a step back and think rationally, it's obvious he has a biased agenda. Like that Forbes article was just pure bullshit. Like I'm sorry, this is still wrestling, and I'm sorry that it seems AEW seems to book by not seeing colors and just seeing wrestlers by their actual wrestling and talent and their connection with the crowd, rather than just trying to fill diversity quota's. And this is coming from an Asian ethnic man. Do you see me whining about the lack of Asian men in AEW? No. Maybe if they had someone like Shinsuke or Okada and he wasn't pushed, sure. But I'm not gonna demand someone like TJP be signed by AEW and pushed up the card just because I need more representation.


NotOneStraw

THANK YOU


OmegaJad

17 % ( 19 out of 112 ) of the AEW roster is black, it's more than 13 % which is the pecentage of black in the US. Obviously Alfred didn't take just one minute of his timeto search some facts ( or he couldn't face the reality ). ​ >I'm sorry that it seems AEW seems to book by not seeing colors and just seeing wrestlers by their actual wrestling and talent and their connection with the crowd, rather than just trying to fill diversity quota's. You're totally right, if there is no black wrestler main eventing in AEW right now it's because there is no black wrestler better or more over than Jericho, Moxley, Omega or Bryan. AEW is building some black talent right now ( Hobbs, Dante Martin, Jade Cargill, The Acclaimed ), they will be on top of their respective division one day but they are not ready yet.


manonthemoon905

Alfred Konuwa writes about wrestling with pure bad faith when it comes to AEW, transparently trying to land a job with the almighty WWE like a sellout, it's unfortunate that Forbes is so obtuse to this because pro wrestling coverage obviously is a low priority to them. And to add your list, Hangman, Darby, OC.... but guys Starks & Hobbs are almost there, they'll get there for sure. Maybe Lio Rush pending activity. And after that guys like Lee Moriarty, Dante Martin, women like Red Velvet & Kiera Hogan... and Sonny Kiss may even get a TNT title push somewhere down the line (and checks multiple 'representation' boxes) and it'll feel a LOT more organic & rewarding when it all goes down.


Rockmond22

He is clearly weaponizing his support for black wrestlers as a bludgeon against AEW.


Gamesgtd

That's not a thing. You can't do that. Also if supporting black people hurts AEW than doesn't that says more about AEW than him. Again I don't think that's a thing however.


pyzzle

Just curious, if you're a lefty or a lib, in a hypothetical election between say, Ben Carson, and generic white liberal #42, would you vote for Ben Carson for the readily observable reason? Or, if you're a conservative, would you have voted for Obama over Romney?


Gamesgtd

Neither. I don't do political affiliations. And I've only ever voted once.


Rockmond22

Not a thing? He's clearly a WWE fluffer and is using AEWs lack of black main eventers at this moment to paint the company and the fans a certain way.


Gamesgtd

Is it not a bad thing for them to not have black main eventers in an American based promotion. Especially if black wrestlers have proven to be a draw with a black audience. Why wouldn't you want those fans.


45jayhay

I think it something to hold the company feet to the fire to especially if it looks like they have no black wrestlers in mind for the future. But needling them with it every chance you get I find unnecessary. This idea that the audience will get behind and support any black wrestler just because is false and would just set that man for potential failure.


kuhpunkt

Nobody said they don't want those fans... jfc.


ackinsocraycray

The guy complains about AEW lacking diversity and black wrestlers and apparently hasn't noticed the current crop of champs that include The Lucha Bros and Sammy Guevara nor acknowledging the signing of Lee Moriarty.


OmegaJad

17 % ( 19 out of 112 ) of the AEW roster is black, it's more than 13 % which is the pecentage of black in the US.


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ackinsocraycray

I said "diversity and black wrestlers." Don't misquote me.


Gamesgtd

OK. To some that might not be enough. Especially if you see the other company with 2 black women as legit main events and Big E as WWE champion. If he doesn't feel properly represented that's completely reasonable to feel as a fan. Representation is important as a fan.


manonthemoon905

I mean, AEW is a 2 year old freaking company. WWE is like 30+ years old. AEW still have to get the talents, you can't just expect "token" pushes. Like, you bet your ass Jade Cargill & Powerhouse Hobbs would be pushed to the moon right now with a little more polish (or in Jade's case, a lot more polish).


Gamesgtd

I wouldn't consider then token pushes. Because I think both are more than ready to be champions. Esepcially Hobbs. It isn't like a Jinder situation. Even still I understood Jinder because it could've meant something to Indian fans.


manonthemoon905

Newsflash: Triple H was cheered over Jinder in India lol And I'm sorry, Jade isn't ready. You must not watch her matches. That basically WOULD BE a token push to appease to this "representation" thing because someone like Thunder Rosa is OBVIOUSLY more ready to be a champion. Hobbs COULD BE ready, soon. But is he more over than Kenny Omega or Sammy Guevara? Come on. What are we doing here? Are you really suggesting AEW have black champions right now JUST BECAUSE WWE does? That's ridiculous. That's token pushing. You're really contradicting yourself here.


Gamesgtd

Just because someone isn't ready to you doesn't me they are to me. I see Hobbs and I think he's more than ready to be a main eventer. I know it isn't his time but he shouldn't be losing to Orange Cassidy in the first round.


NotOneStraw

Hobbs best match to date was Punk's worst match since returning to wrestling. He literally belongs nowhere near the main event scene. I'm so glad TK books on merit and not skin color.


Kinterlude

Hobbs is not ready to be a main eventer. Can you name some notable Hobbs matches? He's still coming into his own, but he's not there yet. AEW has shown that they want to grow talent before pulling the trigger, which is a good idea. Jade is nowhere near ready. You're entitled to your opinion, but she's green as grass. She can only work squashes with much more talented wrestlers than herself. Swole would be a much better choice, but even then champions shouldn't be chosen due to their race. They should be the most over talent that can work with the belt. It shouldn't be a point of bragging that you had your first all black main event when the WWE has existed for over 40 years. That's pretty fucking bad that it took them too long to do so. And so we ignore their blatant racism like the "champion of Ethiopia" that they had in 2009 with Del Ray 3000 having dirt all over him carrying a spear?


kuhpunkt

What's Hobbs character? What's his promo like? What's his story? What would happen if you give him the belt tomorrow?


ackinsocraycray

That's fair. But AEW doesn't have WWE's luxury of being able to build up multiple wrestlers for years, some even longer than AEW itself has existed. If AEW doesn't have the representation you'd like to see, you can wait (or not) for them to get there. Or you can support WWE, who has the representation you're looking for.


Gamesgtd

That's how it is for me right now. Hobbs losing to OC was deflating so I'm not watching AEW until the TBS tournament finals because I hope Jade Cargill will be there. I have hopes she will win it because she's being protected really well. I'm also hoping for more with Scorpio Sky if he ever breaks away as a face.


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Gamesgtd

Never said that. My favorite wrestlers ever is the Undertaker . My favorite current wrestlers is Roman Reigns. But I like a vast majority of black wrestlers on either roster and it's always nice to see people like me get pushed.


Red_Mage_Riot

The problem is, he's letting that admittedly noble goal curdle into something really toxic. Like, whatever his end is, he's clearly jumping through a lot of really sketchy hoops to get there.


kuhpunkt

He's not supporting black wrestlers.


Blueday206

How is this downvoted?


Gamesgtd

I don't want to call a bunch of people racists but they are a bunch of sensitive people who can't handle that someone likes different things.


Blueday206

Hey, listen. Im not some woke white guy. Just a white guy. I would like to say that you said nothing wrong or anything negative. I hope you keep supporting what is important to YOU. Don't let these guys talk down to you or act like you are wrong.


Gamesgtd

I’m 25 none of this affects me. It’s just sad how some of these people will claim one thing and then this thread is proof of another.


Blueday206

Glad it doesn't. This has been really eye opening reading this thread. It's not even subtle anymore


Gamesgtd

I've been saying it for a while. The sad part is when they say it's some anti AEW agenda to want black wrestlers pushed at the top and use excuses like they aren't ready or good enough yet.


Blueday206

If you are a fan, no offense but nobody in AEW is a star. They keep saying that it's young blah blah blah blah They EASILY could have pushed a black guy in 2 years. It's not "their time" but weird that there is something very similar with "the four pillars" How is Scorpio not ready? Dude is 40


Gamesgtd

Idk I'm a huge fan and when he split from SCU I thought he was going to be a breakout singles but now he's stuck in another tag team again. So he's literally did a 360.


Blueday206

Unrelated they keep talking about the precious demo. I wonder what the demo is with minorities. Nobody there to get behind. Just feeding the fake woke racist white guy demo.


Gamesgtd

It's fine if that's the target audience but it would be nice if people stopped defending that as a good thing.


J_NewCastle

Fuck I thought we were done with fast nationals


Cult_of_62

Yeah this stuff ain't gonna stop IMO until whoever's leaking them (*cough* WWE *cough*) believes it's no longer in their interest to ensure it gains first traction in the news cycle.


Not-A-Mark

Yeah, they really leaked them last week to make themselves look bad. Come on.


ThcLoserGuy

they didn't, that's the point


NotOneStraw

Too obvious for him. Needs more pro-WWE content.


Not-A-Mark

They came out last Saturday, like usual.


InuJoshua

They released the total viewers last week but not the demo. It was the first and only week they didn’t considering they released them again this week. Last week was the only week they skipped, which was when AEW tied/beat them. EDIT: bruh you can downvote me but that doesn’t change the facts no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise. Willfully living in delusion isn’t good.


Not-A-Mark

Ooo.. those two days really make a difference. And when the final numbers come out, nobody on here pays attention to them./s Why would WWE continue to "leak" the numbers early after a "reporter" said publicly he gets the numbers from them?


InuJoshua

Being all sarcastic and passive aggressive for providing information is unnecessary. Engaging with you is clearly a waste of time. Your post has nothing to do with what I said. Just more goalpost moving because you don’t want to admit you misremembered last week.


Not-A-Mark

I did admit the demo wasn't released early last week in another comment. But I still call bullshit that WWE is "leaking" the numbers, "bruh". I also doubt how much it would make a difference either way.


Cult_of_62

The leak for last week's head-to-head only just covered total numbers even though previous leaks included both that and the 18-49 demo. Remind me again - during that head-to-head which promotion won the total numbers and which one won the demo?


Not-A-Mark

The demo numbers were available too.


Cult_of_62

Well it wasn't in [Andrew Zarian's report on the leak](https://twitter.com/AndrewZarian/status/1449416577426853893) - I'm sure you can provide us another report somewhere released on the 16th that actually has the fast national demo numbers on there?


Not-A-Mark

Hmm.. I can't find them from Saturday. Maybe I was wrong. But one thing that doesn't make sense if WWE is leaking them. Anybody in news will tell you that if you want good news to be leaked, you don't do it on the weekend.


ningbody

And when are they gonna leak it, then? Monday, when the full thing comes out?


Independent-Set-8850

WWEs mentality is that if they leak the fast nationals when it makes AEW look bad, it is guaranteed news coverage on them doing badly compared to Smackdown. Of course this is a false comparison because of the timeslots and prestige difference between the shows but that doesn't matter to them. They get a couple of days where the news is "Smackdown does 2m+ and Rampage does 500k/600k. The only time they didn't release the demo numbers was when they went head to head and drew with rampage (they got thrashed in the 30 minutes directly against each other). That shows it's all about perception and they want to push a narrative of 'SD doing well, Rampage doing bad'.


chaosisarascal

I want faster nationals. I want a scrolling ticker during live shows with real time P12-34 viewership in key markets. Gimme Bloomberg TV style but with dudes wrestling in the background instead of interviews with the CFO of some BS mid market cap investment firm. /s


Known-Ad7468

WWE is doing that for pure storytelling. Their goal is to give to people the perception that AEW is just a bunch of losers. So might as well leak the fast nationals who are always lower than the true numbers two days later. The reality is that in head to head competition, they lost and with their biggest superstars without commercials against a normal Rampage. WWE is fine but seemingly, they can´t accept that someone else is doing good in pro wrestling. If they just focused on themself and tried to improve their booking, I think that WWE would be in a way better place today but whatever.


Not-A-Mark

Yeah, WWE really leaked numbers that made themselves look bad.


vaastav05

That's what the tweet is saying man. They didn't leak the numbers last week when they were not favourable.


Not-A-Mark

But the early numbers that came out were favorable, in that Smackdown was over Rampage in viewership by 31%. You could also look at it that they were not favorable, because they were way down in viewership.


ningbody

Yeah, exactly. They leaked the favorable numbers. And that time only, didn't leak demos, that made them look bad.


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ningbody

they...didn't. They avoided the numbers that made them look bad.


LukkasG

can we get like ratings filter? Similar to spoilers? Like you need to tag threads with [Ratings] in the title and people could just filter them out


TheCanipiola

Please.


SeauxSurvivor

Oh how glorious that would be


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bomberman12

Could have just ignored that reply too, but you didn’t.


LukkasG

nah, i just thought it would be a neat idea


theapplebits

Worked up? Bro, relax lol. Some people just don't care and don't think this is very wrestling related.


BlindLariat

Of course it's wrestling related, let's not act like for the first time in history people are interested in BTS wrestling stuff. And yea, people definitely get worked up about ratings and ratings threads, tell them to chill.


theapplebits

I said *very* wrestling related. It's become spammy and it creates controversy around here that honestly, this place is incapable of handling.


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LukkasG

i clicked to suggest an idea that i thought would be cool and make a lot of people happy no need to act like i'm mad or something


TheNakedChair

Might be the same person that forced ya to post a sarcastic comment.


TheNakedChair

*"fast nationals"*


Not-A-Mark

Did Tony K. not have early access to the numbers? I'm sure he knows people at TNT that could give them to him if need be. It's not like he's shy about pimping the numbers when they are favorable.


Not-A-Mark

One problem with the conspiracy theory: they were released on Saturday last week too.


thetannock

The demo’s weren’t, which is the point. The 2 weeks previous to that, the overall number & the demo was leaked. Last week just the overall number & then today it was back to the overall plus demo. Because WWE is the one leaking them & last week made them look bad.


Not-A-Mark

They looked bad without the demo too. Their viewership was way down.


ningbody

...because they were on fs1...


Independent-Set-8850

Only because they were on FS1 which was expected. Them getting beat by AEW in the demo for those 30 minutes wasn't expected which is why they didn't leak them that time.


Sir-Cadogan

That's actually the point? I don't think you read the title closely enough. The fast nationals were released every week, but the only week WWE gets beaten in demos by AEW they somehow forget to include the demo numbers. Can't imagine why.


Not-A-Mark

The numbers are out eventually. Pretty sure getting the worse news on Monday is a lot worse than getting it on Saturday, when less people are paying attention.


Sir-Cadogan

I'm not debating whether it's a good strategy or a bad strategy. I'm just correcting your misunderstanding.


Not-A-Mark

I got it already, thanks.


ningbody

Man, you're really into peddling misinformation, huh?


Not-A-Mark

Eh, the whole thing seems like a conspiracy theory. If WWE was leaking them, why would they continue to leak them after supposedly exposed doing so? Why not tell us who the actual leaker was, since their confidence would have been betrayed already by telling us it was them anyway?


ningbody

> why would they continue to leak them after supposedly exposed doing so Because it still does what they want. Popping out smaller numbers for AEW to make the competition look worse.


HairyArthur

Jesus Christ. Can we stop with the ratings and demo threads every fucking day?


Not-A-Mark

Only if we stop clicking and commenting on them.


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NotOneStraw

Don't be an asshole.


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dynamicpenguin55

You tapped on the post


16intheclip

Imagine a "journalist" uncritically reporting information leaked by a company trying to maintain it's monopoly on a market. Everyone who does that is dubious at best, including SRS and Meltzer with lots of their "leaks".


scrappy_ash

i think i lost at least 13 brain cells trying to read that


sdixon90

I do not understand the point of leaking these 2 days before they're going to be released anyways? How does it benefit anyone?


DanUnbreakable

AEW is winning because they aren't going away. WWE is declining, which sucks because it hurts all wrestling that they aren't doing well. The point of AEW ratings being similar or close to WWE is a new tv deal