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Hearing over liquor shortage reveals the obvious: N.C. ABC system is a mess

Hearing over liquor shortage reveals the obvious: N.C. ABC system is a mess

ChemgoddessOne

NC ABC is horrible. Set prices across the state is ridiculous. Charging bars a bottle fee drives up prices. The money they give to education is then cut from the education budget (it is not additive). As someone who used to live in a state where bars and liquor stores dealt directly with suppliers as opposed to a middleman mafia the process here is just painful.


Iwasborninafactory_

It's just plain and simply old school good ol' boy corruption.


Hot_Dog_Cobbler

Wait until you look into the lotto commission


McViddles

Wait until this ‘compassionate use’ medical marijuana legislation passes. Cletus, hold my beer


Hot_Dog_Cobbler

That law is pretty much "if you're in hospice and they pull the plug, you can smell some weed while you die" This one makes sense though. NC has a lot of tobacco farmers who would be out of a job if weed was legal here. Not saying I agree with it, just that I understand the reticence about legalizing it. That said...it's only an hour and a half to the Virginia border and they're opening shops in 3 years.


UNC_Samurai

> NC has a lot of tobacco farmers who would be out of a job if weed was legal here. And they only started growing tobacco again in the last few years because the buyout finally ended.


musashi_san

I gotta think the tobacco farmers would pivot to growing weed or hemp if NC/SC went fully legal. On the other hand, we'll probably wait so late to do it that the market will be too saturated with growers from VA (and whoever in the region is 2nd) and it won't be profitable. Conservatives in this state can't help but fuck themselves (and us all).


darrenja

What buyout? Haven’t heard of this


IguessImBack

I'm not gonna get this 100% correct but either some large company or the government offered to buy the land of a lot of tobacco farmers I think for the purpose of stopping people from farming it or something like that. Either way it consolidated a lot of small farms into a more large ones


Pksnc

This is so important.


McViddles

Yea. I own land in Virginia and agree with what you said. The part that fires me up most is the something like 20 distribution licenses to distribute marijuana? Can’t convince me this isn’t an effort by corrupt politicians that want to dole out monopolies to ‘friends’ vs a sincere effort to offer ‘compassionate use’. It’s like stripping employee protections from people and calling it a ‘right to work’ state. Edit. Is to isn’t. Fat fingers today.


Hot_Dog_Cobbler

NC politics are some of the most corrupt in the nation, maybe outside of Florida. One of these days someone is gonna blow the lid off of the graft and bribery rampant in our state legislature, and I can't fucking wait.


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CooterMcSlappin

What? Why the hell would they lose money lol? Show 1 study that people switch from tobacco to weed once legal. No way


Prestigious-Sir4083

They can start growing a plant doesn't actually kill you


wingedcoyote

What I'd do is establish a fund fed by marijuana taxes that cuts fat stimulus checks to distressed tobacco farmers who want to change crops or retire early. Make the application process real simple. We could ramp down the costly and destructive drug war, spark a ton of economic activity, pay people off to quit growing deadly tobacco, and probably still net plenty of extra revenue. Probably not politically realistic anytime soon but I'd call that a huge win.


zackreav

This comment makes me seethe but I understand it’s from a place of ignorance. Farmers stopped growing tobacco because it isn’t very profitable unless you are netting 500+ acres. Tobacco isn’t a crop you can just send to market. That’s not how this works. It’s not 1975. For the most part you have already “sold” everything you are growing. You get contracts based off previous quality and ability. Tobacco farmers can NOT only farm tobacco. It’d be financial suicide. The money is barely there. Independent Farmers in NC do not live on one crop. They need all of them. The margins are tight and getting tighter. Our farmers are already dwindling, don’t destroy them financially or things are going to get worse for the economy overall.


wingedcoyote

My plan is to literally send them piles of free money. Not sure how you get from there to financial ruination, but I'd be interested to hear about it.


KronktheKronk

\>NC has a lot of tobacco farmers who would be out of a job if weed was legal here. ​ No they wouldn't. If the money was in weed, they'd farm weed.


belastingdienst

> The money they give to education is then cut from the education budget (it is not additive). Wait, really?


tumbleweedcowboy

Yep. It’s like the NC State Education Lottery. When the lottery started, the state GOP moved to cut the education budget and supplant the cuts by allocating the profits from the lottery. It was a shell game to cut funding and cut taxes for the wealthy.


MaesterInTraining

Good grief, I didn’t know that. So the education budget is dependent upon how many people buy tickets, not a set budget. And people wonder why we were so short staffed teachers this year (among other reasons)


ChemgoddessOne

Yuuuuupppp. The creative ways that this state has “adjusted” the budget over the last 8-10 years is sinful. Source: disgruntled ex state worker


pencilpusher003

What’s worse is that the Republican legislature will just continue to cut education funding at a commensurate rate to the revenue generated by the lottery. So if suddenly every one in NC started buying lottery tickets to ‘support the schools’ the legislature would simply cut more funding from the state budget. While teachers continue to buy school supplies for their students out of their own pockets, and while being among the lowest paid teachers in the nations.


MaesterInTraining

Now…if they had taken that money and shifted it to, say, Medicare expansion…wouldn’t be as bad. But when my friend posts on FB asking for donations for her classroom…this is infuriating. Frustrating. Immoral. Disheartening. I think I’ll stop here with the adjectives


ChemgoddessOne

They have huge drives in other state agencies for teachers. You know, the same people who are getting paid a fraction of the standard of the area being asked to help buy supplies. And these are the same people who will continue to put the same people in place that could care less about them having supplies or a living wage.


Motheroftides

Oh man, I remember my parents complaining about the money that was supposed to go towards education instead going towards the DOT for roadwork and such back when the lottery first started. Not implemented well at all.


jnecr

You should know that Democractic Governor Bev Purdue was the first to take money out of the Education Lottery Fund and use it for something else. In fact, Republicans didn't want the lottery at all, citing the fact that is just a voluntary tax on the poor. *As an aside, In Romania (my old boss was Romanian) the lottery's literal translation is tax on the stupid.* Anyways, Purdue set the standard, prior to her all proceeds (after distributions to winners, commissions, costs) from the lottery were guaranteed to go to education. Once she dipped into it that pot was now fair game. Just know that you shouldn't only be blaming Republicans, although, this is Reddit, so that's what we do. Queue the downvotes for mentioning something bad that a Democrat did. Hell, I'll probably be banned.


tmcheatham

Also, the Dems don't like to mention it, but there was a teacher salary reversion during Bev's reign. We had to return a portion of our promised salary. Of course, the spin was that she did too, so......


ChemgoddessOne

But it is the GOP that has done everything in their power to kill education in our state. I believe in 2009 NC was still a fairly high ranking state when it came to spending on education and teacher pay. [This](https://caffeinatedrage.com/2019/04/16/comparing-nc-teacher-salaries-now-to-2008-2009-what-new-teachers-wont-get-if-they-become-veteran-teachers/) is pretty telling. Teacher pay in 2009 was HIGHER than it is now in NC.


tmcheatham

10 yr teacher 2008 $3915, for 2018 $4500. I don't see any instance where 2008 pay is greater than 2018 pay. Unless you adjust for inflation. I Like your username :)


ChemgoddessOne

Apologies, looked at them backwards. But there is a 10 year difference and only a $5000 difference in almost every case. $500 a year when other benefits have disappeared.


BoBromhal

The Lottery was passed w a Dem-led state Senate and House, which had been under the control of Dems and remained so until 2010. During the recession, it was the Dem Governor and Dem controlled NCGL that took lottery funds for the general budget


That-Shit-will-buff-

Almost right from the get go it started to be used wrong. [Gov. Beverly Perdue is getting some backlash for her decision to use lottery funds to balance the state’s budget, including a bill co-sponsored by Rep. David Guice to drop the word “education” from the N.C. Education Lottery’s title](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blueridgenow.com/article/20090414/news/606030769%3ftemplate=ampart)


tvtb

Conservatives don't believe in funding education any more.


churnosaurus_rex

Oooh good to know I can easily dispense this canard whenever I'm arguing with someone who supports the ABC system. Every time I have this conversation, they ask where we'll get the lost revenue. Apparently there is no lost revenue.


Littlefield704

I never realized how much I love buying liquor at Costco until moving to NC


ChemgoddessOne

I used to be able to talk to store owners and have them order me things. That is not possible in NC. Additionally the bars got alcohol *cheaper* due to volume so if you had someone in the industry they could legally order you supply with their regular order and you would pay what they pay. I miss $4 (top shelf) vodka drinks.


trumpetmiata

You actually can get the ABC store to special order things. I'm not exactly sure how but my roommate used to do it every time he discovered some obscure liqueur online


ChemgoddessOne

It has to be in their system. I have been able to do this myself, however if they don’t have it on their approved for sale list they will not order it for you [ABC Approved For Sale](https://abc.nc.gov/Search/Brand)


goldendawn7

It's suuuuuuuuuuch a pain in the ass! I've done it and literally waited 5 months to get my bottle before. If you're ordering 1 bottle, they have to order the whole case and put the rest on the shelf at a store and hope it sells, which they'll do, but they don't love it. So you're literally put on the very very bottom of their priority list. I won't do it anymore, I travel out of state enough I just buy on travel. Hell I've done special orders through VA's abc board before they're so much easier to deal with and have such a better selection. Overall our ABC board is just so God awful. Republicans forgive it for resembling socialism and stifling free market competition. Democrats forgive it for reeking of puritanical anti alcohol sentiment. Abolishing it came up in the house when Purdue was gov. "I'm not going to be the governor that kills the ABC board" was what we got. No one's even floated the idea since.


Elegant-Step

Abolish the ABC! Can we do this via ballot initiative or something?


Early_Deuce

In NC the only way to get a statewide ballot initiative is if the legislature approves it. (Which is why we can't expand Medicaid by ballot initiative, by the way. Voters in a bunch of conservative states did it that way, including Idaho, Oklahoma, & Missouri.)


speakeasy_slim

I'd vote for it


excitedburrit0

If only that was a thing in NC.


MaesterInTraining

No, I think that’s only in California


wildweeds

[far more states](https://ballotpedia.org/States_with_initiative_or_referendum) than just california


MaesterInTraining

Huh, I had no idea. You always hear about all the Props outta Cali. Never interested me enough to see if other states were like that. Interesting that the initial 13 colony states (except Mass) don’t have this as part of their government


jesuswasahipster

So well said. ABV limits on beer, no happy hours, heavy regulation on sales, no selling until 12 (or 10?) on Sundays, liquor stores closed on Sunday. All stupid policies for a state that hates big government cracking down on their freedoms.


goldendawn7

I'll say this, our beer ABV limit is 15%, which at the time of the 'Pop the cap' law (as it was called) put us in very rare company amongst states for its permissiveness. I think that's different now though and it needs to be revisited.


jesuswasahipster

For as good of a beer state NC is, there shouldn’t be one at all. If I can go to a bar and enjoy an Old Fashion (40ish%) then why can’t I go to a brewery and enjoy an 18% BBA Stout? Doesn’t make any sense and only hurts breweries and bottle shops. Look at states like Colorado who have no abv limit and the stuff that Avery is able to put out because of it.


goldendawn7

Oh dude I agree with you completely. I'm just saying at the time it was passed it was one of the better beer ABV laws in the country, and we were all psyched. Old Rasputin was my first high gravity. Tasted like ass after a lifetime of 4%ers.


jesuswasahipster

I got you, sorry. I just moved back from Colorado and that law triggers the fuck out of me.


GhettoChemist

I absolutely would support privitazing the sale of spirits. Years ago that would have been unheard of in a bibble state like North Carolina, but the ABC has demonstrated itself wildly inefficient.


yosefvinyl

I just want Costco to be able to carry their kirkland brand liquors in the state.


ppParadoxx

that $20 Kirkland French vodka is a holy grail


MisterWoodhouse

Kirkland Tequila is seriously amazing for mixed drinks


Rob3E

I've heard good things, but never been to a Costco that could sell liquor. How about Virginia? I might have to make a trip.


soccergod04

VA doesn't allow it. SC or DC would be your nearest Costcos that sell liquor, afaik.


tarheelcj

I know South Carolina costcos sell liquor


lightningevents

SC Costco’s sell liquor. You also don’t actually have to be a Costco member to shop at them — the liquor section is separate from the rest of the store.


vtbrian

Virginia Costco's do not sell liquor either.


gonzagylot00

It's so much easier in California to just go to a grocery store and pickup liquor if you want it. Pennsylvania on the other hand manages to be much worse than NC. You either get absolutely gouged at a bar for a 6-pack, or you have to go to these beer distributors that are usually a pain in the butt, and only conducive for cars. And that's just for beer. They also have basically an ABC store system for liquor.


JOKER09

Coming from PA makes NC seem reasonable.


notstephanie

I recently went to CA for the first time and I knew our liquor laws were ass backward, but that trip really made me realize how bad it is. We went to some free concerts in Golden Gate Park and it was BYOB. Just people chilling, having a few drinks, listening to music in a park. What a concept.


Early_Deuce

Bay Area parks that allowed alcohol was mind-blowing for me too. Like, we can just go hang out? In the park? Incredible


rainyday_redditor

As a depressed college student living in PA without a car, getting beer from the distributor was not feasible. However, the liquor store was just a quick bus ride away. I wasn't good at mixing drinks and the grocery store was a few bus stops farther so I'd just drink straight liquor. Long story short, now I'm an alcoholic. Thanks PA.


Rob3E

I took a bike trip through PA and had a little cooler for food, snacks, and, of course, beer, except I could never figure out why there never seemed to be beer at any of the places I stopped. Did seem better last time, though. I actually found some beer at the gas station.


gonzagylot00

Oh that's right. I haven't been to PA in a while, I think they did at least somewhat improve their system.


mondaywonderhands

I visited my grandma in Pittsburgh and I wanted to get a six pack of beer to try out, and the guy at the beer “distributor” (which is what all the beer stores were called) said I couldn’t buy just one sixer, I had to buy a whole case at a time.


speakeasy_slim

When you go to another state that lets its drinkers act like adults and buy alcohol at grocery stores you realize what a ridiculous Monopoly the state has and how badly they run it. Nobody wants an ABC store. Nobody asked for that we all have to deal with their stupid fucking games..


Hot_Dog_Cobbler

Well, somebody did ask for it... ...in 1937. Nearly a hundred years later, it might be time to re-examine the laws around the ABC. Or at the very least: Let me buy booze on a Sunday. I don't go to church, if I'm going to hell at least let me have a good time up here first.


Pushbrown

ya, never got this whole no booze on sunday thing.... I thought this was America, freedom of religion also means freedom from religion... so frustrating


Hot_Dog_Cobbler

The Baptists are weird about drinking. I've known a few people who weren't even allowed to get married in their church if they were going to have alcohol at their reception. Not the ceremony. The reception, elsewhere, after the wedding.


BarfHurricane

What cracks me up are grown men who wait in line and enter lotteries here for a bottle of Blanton's when people in places like Florida walk into a Walmart and grab it right off the shelf. If that doesn't show that the ABC is a failure then I don't know what does.


spacetrashcomic

Eh replace Blanton’s with Buffalo Trace and your description is more accurate (and sadder for NC). I don’t know that Blanton’s at retail is that accessible anywhere.


goldendawn7

Is that still the case? I mean, the rare bourbon stuff started getting really tough to find at retail literally everywhere like 5 years ago.


BarfHurricane

My friend sent me a post in a bourbon group about someone picking up Blanton's at a Florida Walmart as recently as this week.


Tex-Rob

When we moved here in 2007, from TX, I had zero idea what an ABC store or “package store” was or any of this. It’s very weird if you grew up in a place without it.


mike_b_nimble

It’s equally weird to grow up here and be in your 30s the first time you see liquor at a grocery store.


d4vezac

The eye-popping moment for me was when my cousins in New Orleans wanted to stop at a CVS to pick up beers when we were about to head to Bourbon street. “Uh, what are we going to do with those right *now*?”, I asked. “Drink them in the street.” They said like it was the most obvious answer in the world.


pastryfiend

Yeah it's totally legal. You can pretty much smoke weed out in the open too, the cops aren't interested in enforcing the law downtown.


athennna

Being at a restaurant or bar and being able to take your alcoholic drink TO GO in New Orleans blew my mind.


d4vezac

There were *walk-through windows* on the sidewalk. For Hand Grenades.


Sherifftruman

Parts of Savannah have that also. It’s weird at first that’s for sure.


imrealbizzy2

It was very weird to me to live in an enormous metroplex ,specifically Colin County in DFW area, but have to drive to another county to buy liquor. And that was since 2007.


speakeasy_slim

Yeah it's like some weird arbitrary game that they make you play.


Bad_Decision_Rob_Low

I wish this was an actual issue to vote on


_Turiya

good. now. let’s continue.


jnecr

I don't mind ABC stores. Is it perfect? Of course not, but it is nice to know that I can go into any ABC store and the prices are the same. Also, for harder to find bourbons/whiskeys the prices are typically *lower* than what you'd find elsewhere. Would it be nice to have a liquor store that focused on bourbons/whiskeys? Probably, but I'm pretty sure the markup would be ridiculous.


informativebitching

As someone who visits Kentucky regularly I can assure you the markups are not ridiculous at all. I usually stock up on stuff the ABC system doesn’t carry.


skydivingninja

Sure, in KY where most of the bourbon is made, but it is nice knowing you're not going to get gouged if you find something cool. But that's literally the only benefit of the ABC system in NC.


BarfHurricane

>Also, for harder to find bourbons/whiskeys the prices are typically lower than what you'd find elsewhere. Aside from the fact that this state doesn't even get hard to find liquor outside of once a year for a lottery. Or the fact that there are some brands you simply cannot buy in any part of the state because they don't have a buddy buddy relationship with the ABC.


-PM_YOUR_BACON

Meh. There are benefits (especially from taxes, employment, and less consumption of alcohol, reduced underage access to liquor), which is why the system was put in place. I think there may be better ways to run the ABC system in NC, but when Washington and West Virginia switched to privatization, sales went down, tax revenues went down, selection did not go up, and alcohol related deaths increased. The article linked is just a poorly written 'opinion piece' that does little actually address the issues of the ABC system in NC, except that "oh it's a mess".


Dr_Oracles

The only benefit is taxes. Kids are going to get alcohol whether people like it or not. Most kids get beer anyways because it’s way cheaper. As for selection? Dude your kidding right? I can pop into a cvs in Florida that has a better selection than your average abc store here and it’s way cheaper!


mrtomhimself

I think the argument with kids, well, teenagers really is, it can be easier for them to access it and shoplift it if it's sold at CVS and Wal-Mart than in a controlled store where the staff can kick them out as soon as they enter the store. Teens can still shoplift from the ABC stores, but it's more obvious what they are trying to do there.


Dr_Oracles

I get the argument, but I disagree with it. As a younger person it’s not like alcohol was difficult to get when I was underage. You literally just paid someone to go buy it for you.


kristoferen

Shoplifting liquor must be the stupidest way to get it when underage


-PM_YOUR_BACON

Well. The data on it, seems to indicate that states with ABC systems overall drink less. I didn't say NC has some great selection, I said it went down in states that got rid of the ABC system, which makes sense, the biggest groups fighting ABC systems are Costco and Walmart. I'm sure the selection will be fantastic in those.


Dr_Oracles

I don’t see that as a benefit though. It might be if you’re anti-alcohol and live in one of our lovely dry counties.


andural

Correlation != Causation though.


-PM_YOUR_BACON

The authors of several papers on the subject would disagree with you. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19944925


andural

Fair enough. Thanks for the reference.


poop-dolla

> when Washington and West Virginia switched to privatization, sales went down, tax revenues went down, selection did not go up, and alcohol related deaths increased. Can you link whatever studies or articles you’re getting this from?


-PM_YOUR_BACON

Here is a 20 page report on the subject if you want to start reading: https://alcoholjustice.org/images/stories/pdfs/controlstate_report_final.pdf Additionally there are several studies for Washington on the subject: https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article/50/6/654/193092 (Alcohol prices have risen 15% in the state and tax revenues have significantly fallen) The removal of the ABC system in Washington has been so bad, that folks go to [Idaho \(which has ABC\) to get better prices](https://www.nwnewsnetwork.org/government-and-politics/2016-02-08/washington-liquor-privatization-continues-to-drive-sales-to-oregon-idaho) and selection on alcohol. Do you have any data that shows getting rid of the ABC system would actually improve NC in any way?


poop-dolla

Prices are cheaper in states with private sales compared to state controlled sales: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3529794/ It sounds like Washington didn’t handle their move to privatization very well. I think requiring new liquor sale license holders to have at least 10,000 sq ft of sales space was a bad move. The Washington example goes to show that switching to licensed liquor sales from state controlled could actually make the situation worse if not handled correctly.


-PM_YOUR_BACON

> The Washington example goes to show that switching to licensed liquor sales from state controlled could actually make the situation worse if not handled correctly. Absolutely agree. And I doubt in all ways that NC could actually handle it successfully and somehow make NC any sort of 'liquor utopia' unfortunately.


Irishfafnir

I'm fine with the ABC system, generates lots of revenue for the state that would otherwise have to come from somewhere else. I'm sure there's ways of improving it, but wholesale removal doesn't seem like a good solution


Wim_Wam_Bronze_Medal

I guess the question is more why this industry specifically? Why is there a state monopoly on liquor but not on bicycles or cheese puffs? We’d get revenue from a government monopoly on those, too, right?


That-Shit-will-buff-

The state owns more land then bars, regulate landscape companies if they want to meddle in business. Lol


Irishfafnir

Combination of History and the dangerousness of alcohol.


-PM_YOUR_BACON

The biggest reason is alcohol is potentially harmful, especially when not regulated. Think about why bartenders are supposed to 'cut someone off'. Same reason the government regular vehicle safety, drug safety, food safety, they all have the potential for harm. While increase regulation around say 'drunk driving' would be beneficial, you get more 'bang for your buck' to put regulations earlier in the process. Such as sale and distribution of alcohol.


Wim_Wam_Bronze_Medal

Automobiles. Guns. Cleaning products. Gasoline. Cigarettes. All of these are also harmful. It sounds like you are in favor of giving the state a monopoly on these things as well?


-PM_YOUR_BACON

Those all are highly regulated by the government. Should they be under absolute control by the government? Probably not, but it's pretty darn close already. Go drive on the road without asking for the government permission and see how long you'll be able to do so. Go buy a gun without government permission and see how long that lasts. For people saying 'state shouldn't control alcohol', there are a whole lot of other things the state shouldn't control, or the alternative is that they are controlled and we the people decide to what degree.


poop-dolla

> Go drive on the road without asking for the government permission and see how long you'll be able to do so. >Go buy a gun without government permission and see how long that lasts. Those are pretty bad arguments. States with private sales still require “government permission” to sell the liquor and you still need “government permission” to buy the liquor. We’re not trying to argue that anyone can sell it or buy it. You do know that’s not the way private sale states work, right?


-PM_YOUR_BACON

> You do know that’s not the way private sale states work, right? It's actually a pretty good argument. The state assesses your ability to drive before you are granted the ability to do so, and removes it when they do not believe you are competent to drive. Same with liquor sales.


poop-dolla

That doesn’t happen differently in ABC states vs. private liquor sale states though. That’s why those are bad arguments.


Wim_Wam_Bronze_Medal

No one is saying that there shouldn’t be regulation, please stop strawmanning, you’re better than that. We’re saying there shouldn’t be a blanket state monopoly on selling this particular product when there isn’t one for others. You disagree, you think alcohol is some special evil, that’s fine, but please at least be honest. Thanks!


-PM_YOUR_BACON

> We’re saying there shouldn’t be a blanket state monopoly on selling this particular product when there isn’t one for others. The same blanket monopoly exists for your legal right to own guns. Don't get a tax stamp and a government approved background check, no gun for you. Why does that exist? Safety?


plantcraft

As a transplant from the promised land of alcohol, Florida, let me just tell you how hard these religious zealots are shafting you. Not only is your liquor more expensive, but it's also hardly ever on sale because there's no competition. And beer is more expensive and also never on sale because they have a captive audience as people are too lazy to hit up the ABC, but the corner store or grocery is right there. Stupid conservative laws. What is this, Saudi Arabia? ^(/s)


Wim_Wam_Bronze_Medal

No one will truly be free until anyone can walk into a corner store in Riyadh and walk out with a bottle of manischiewitz!


notstephanie

When we go to FL, my husband always considers stocking up on liquor because it’s so much cheaper there.


seven3true

If I'm ever within decent driving distance from Vermont, I make an effort to stock up.


MaesterInTraining

I rarely even drink but NOW I’m considering getting a few bottles while down there lol


way2lazy2care

> Florida, let me just tell you how hard these religious zealots are shafting you. Not only is your liquor more expensive I don't think it's a religious thing anymore. I think it's a money thing.


Diorj

Religion money...Same thing.


Bakerman82

That's why when I go to Georgia to see family once a quarter, I go and drop a couple bills for that sweet, out-of-state liquor.


GasOnFire

> As a transplant from the promised land of alcohol, Florida Laughs in Nevadan.


tvtb

There are several beers that we cannot get because they are above 15% ABV. I can think of four beers from Dogfish Head alone that are in the 17-18% range that I love, and have to get out of state.


Pushbrown

I've had that high in garner, i forget the name of the bottle shop but its in the parking lot of a food lion, it was some D9 beer that was like 18%


tvtb

It's NC law that beer cannot be sold above 15%, so that shop was violating the law. Good for them I suppose.


Pushbrown

mmmm I was intrigued so looked it up, I guess it was like 14%, coulda swore he said higher though, I just had a sample https://www.d9brewing.com/rotationals/defying\_gravity.html


BeastaBubbles

As someone who moved from Louisiana to NC and lived there for 3yrs: I still can’t believe that this is a thing lol. Holy crap it was so annoying to have to find an ABC store to get liquor. It’s so stupid.


butterypanda

Considering ABC is basically a racket, I’m not surprised.


BarfHurricane

There's one thing that really chaps my ass about our system that gets little press: ALE It's the "alcohol enforcement agency" and yet they have immense power so far removed from "we caught someone drinking underage". They deal in busting people for gambling, using Marijuana, tobacco (!), gangs, and countless other things that aren't alcohol related. They have agents that are on Facebook groups for whiskey making sure people aren't talking about shipping alcohol, they bust people for smoking joints even though it's "decriminalized", and they probably are on this subreddit. This is government over reach and bloat at its finest but neither party will even consider dismantling ALE.


goldendawn7

I was a bartender years ago and ALE came in for an inspection. The shit they're able to get away with is putrid. They told me how I as the bartender could be charged criminally if there were any missing tax stamps, how they have the right to search my vehicle, I literally thought about quiting right than and there, like 'FUCK this liability'. There's no way they bring in more money in fines than they cost the state. Like use the Police to enforce underage drinking laws, ignore the bullshit laws that shouldn't even be on the books anymore, and defund the fuckin ALE.


_Regular_sized_Rudy

The only thing ALE is good at is shooting dogs


Pushbrown

I'M SHIPPING ALCOHOL, the fuck you gonna do about it?


FATMOUSE22

There are surely some places where the free market fails, but liquor distribution ain’t one of them.


lebenohnegrenzen

The state auditor did an audit into them and found out they were wasting a shit ton of money on bad contracts. Their response? "We get to do what we want" Screw these clowns. They don't care about generating revenue to the state (one of the claims as to why it is regulated) and are wasting taxpayer money.


lovetolearn4ever

Also they have a warehouse that's sitting empty.


CensorVictim

*laughs in Pennsylvanian*


seven3true

PA is I think the worst in the country. But, I haven't been to every state.


ZenYeti98

My father now lives in Maryland was surprised we sold beer and wine in grocery stores here in NC. Apparently, that's not common up there. Then I showed him a receipt from the ABC store and he couldn't believe how cheap alcohol was in NC, "no wonder you guys drink through bottles like it's nothing." He grew up in PA, same as my mother, so I grew up thinking the ABC system was great compared to everywhere else I've been in my life. Cheaper and easier. It's crazy to hear how our system is one of the worst, coming from other states experiences, it's nice to have a consistent price and locations to find those prices.


seven3true

NJ has dedicated liquor stores for beer, wine, and liquor. You can't sell beer or wine in grocery stores or convenience stores. Some stores have a legacy liquor license to sell beer and wine, but they're rare.


WoWMiri

I was told that in MD a chain store could only sell wine/beer at one store per county. It seemed to be fairly accurate from what I recall. I used to drive to Delaware and get wine/beer/alcohol since it was only a 20 minute trip. Was worth it because the prices were super cheap and the stores had huge selections. NH is also good for buying when I used to drive up there and visit friends. We have such a limited selection here in NC :(


MisterWoodhouse

I honestly preferred the PA liquor situation when I lived there for 4 years


CensorVictim

I don't know all their rules on liquor, but it actually does seem like it's easier to buy liquor than beer there.


churnosaurus_rex

It's terrible for beer though


MisterWoodhouse

Yeah, the beer situation is atrocious in PA.


metabic

I miss living in Florida. Could get me an alligator, some meth, and as much liquor as I wanted at 8am on a Sunday.


BenDarDunDat

The liquor shortage is hitting every state. There's a 20% increase in consumption and a shortage of warehouse, dockworkers, truck drivers etc. There's a lack of glass bottles. There's a lack of cans. Breweries and distillers have plenty of product but not enough bottles and kegs to move them in. Tons of international product sitting in the ocean waiting for a port to open. Which is to say, if you think its bad now, wait until we get closer to Christmas.


imrealbizzy2

Ok. BRB. Gotta run to the alphabet store to stock up.


jjwax

suddenly they'll start upcharging because their spirits were "aged at sea" - like jeffersons


seven3true

I buy local distillery booze.


4RunnaLuva

Lol. Yes. Was just in Atlanta. Holy shit what a stupid situation we have here. I won’t get started. On interstate shipping laws. God forbid we buy/sell beer across all state borders.


-PM_YOUR_BACON

Getting rid of the ABC system wouldn't fix that issue. Alcohol laws in general in the US have been broken since prohibition.


lovetolearn4ever

Bro...have you ever been outside of NC? The ABC system is a mess. I've lived in multiple states and the ABC system is the worst. Also why in the heck don't we have reflective paint for the roads here? Other than that I love NC.


spanking01

Having a privately owned liquor store where they know their product and you can ask questions is so great, compared to bourbon is over there


HappyNovel

I’ve been in NC for nine years and it blows my mind every time I go back to my home state and can buy liquor at a gas station or grocery store. Can also legally buy weed and the minimum wage is 76% higher than NC’s. The only thing this state has really got going for it is trees now that I think about it.


poop-dolla

> The only thing this state has really got going for it is trees now that I think about it. If that’s the only thing it has going for it, then why are you here? Is it because we have a good job market and relatively low cost of living? Because those are some pretty good things for a state to have.


HappyNovel

No, it’s mostly the trees and my s/o wanting to be near his family for the time being. Plus, I don’t have to check my shoes for scorpions here. My home state has a lower cost of living and much higher minimum wage than NC.


Pushbrown

Ya I don't know what this poopdolla is talking about, cost of living is getting higher and higher all the time, 7.25 an hour as a minimum wage? It's a joke. You can't live anywhere in the triangle working on that. Maybe if you want to live in the middle of the woods, then you gotta drive stupid far for work and live in a shithole with confederate flags.


Early_Deuce

Just want to point this out: Carolina Journal is a "news" arm of the John Locke Foundation, which is a conservative think tank funded by Art Pope. It is conservative propaganda and not a trustworthy source of information, unlike the N&O, NPR, the Indy Week, etc.


Sherifftruman

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day!


Early_Deuce

This is true!


_Regular_sized_Rudy

Lol NPR


mbf2000

Lots of money will keep this a hard issue to knock out. Special interest groups seed money on both side of the aisle. These are Religious groups who want status quo and others who want to break up the State-run monopoly. I think NC will legalize marijuana before they break this up.


SonnySwanson

The marijuana will be sold under the same system, or one adjacent to it.


seven3true

DEF stores will pop up!


Bob_Sconce

At least it's better than Pennsylvania.


Jthehedgewitch

…shocking… I miss being able to buy hard liquor and waffles in the same store.


-Blast-Tyrant-

Id straight up pay an extra on tax for liquor if I never had to enter an ABC store again. Let stores sell it and let me get ripped on Sundays.


josiejanessaandrews

What bugs me is that they haven’t even bothered to make sure they get Winter Jack in stock! Last year, there was none to be had or found in Cumberland County stores. I went yesterday to see if I could find any and they said they weren’t expecting it this year, either! I’m furious!


[deleted]

I know someone that works for the ABC department is on this sub. ​ **STOCK ANGELS ENVY YOU ABSOLUTE INCOMPETENT. IT'S SO GOOD. I'LL BUY YOU ONE IF YOU DO. PLEASE.**


_Regular_sized_Rudy

Lol I got three bottles


[deleted]

**WHERE.**


_Regular_sized_Rudy

In my cabinet


Rusty_Shackleford_NC

Clicked the link to try and read some “news”, and found an angry op-Ed written by an old drunk who is pissed off about having to pay an extra dollar for his Tito‘s bottle


_Regular_sized_Rudy

It’s almost as if within the first three words opinion shows up twice


Swampbuggy1

Just get your liquor shipped to you from out of state, or out of the country even. A European retailer doesn't give two shits about breaking our state's backwards laws. That's the best way to get around this state's bullshit.


Pushbrown

While I don't care if you do this, I imagine you could possibly get in trouble for purchasing like that. Who knows if they can catch you or if it is even possible to catch you, but I imagine it is illegal with all these bullshit laws.


Swampbuggy1

It's amazing to me that you can get a gun shipped right to your door with a C&R yet you can't get a bottle of booze shipped.


adamr94

To be fair, you can hardly compare the two. By applying for an 03 FFL, you are essentially opening up your home to the ATF. I see the comparison you're trying to make, but it's quite different. Tell you one thing that is state/county regulated gun bullshit though... pistol permits.


GZerv

I basically just spend a few hundred dollars in DC whenever I go visit friends because I'm tired of all this bullshit here. Money the state loses on a regular basis and I'm sure I'm not the only one.


nintendroid89

Coming from CO to NC was shock for alcohol purchases In CO all liquor, wine, and beer is sold at private stores. They did just recently change it so grocery stores can sell beer. It’s nice having competition to help drive down prices, have many locations that I could choose from, and also the variety. I also appreciate that going to a private store my $$ is going into community as opposed to the govt pockets


Brad_dawg

It's amazing how this state will try and convince people that there is a supply issue across the country. I have no issues getting Liquor in any other states that I've visited over the last year.


inept_timelord

I like to think of myself as average intelligence person but reading this article all I can think is wtf is this author saying??


soccergod04

This is my shocked face: [unimpressed ](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/015/273/pajamakid.jpg)


adamr94

Nothing will change. It's an easy revenue stream for the state, hidden behind safety. It's like car inspections, pistol permits and god knows what else that I cannot think of.


_Regular_sized_Rudy

All of it is a racket


adamr94

Absolutely is. Think about it, if inspections work so well, why are police ticketing people over tail lights? The state is ruthless when it comes to revenue.


Sherifftruman

The thing is they can just tax it at a level that brings in the same revenue and make retailers do the work of keeping track.


cryptokronalite

That's what happens when redneck bible thumper good old boys run logistics.