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Of course everyone is allowed to have faith. But faith isn’t a pathway to truth, since you can hold ANY position based on faith.
And that same faith doesn’t live in a vaccuum unfortunately. Faith is used to oppress and discriminate people. People want laws to be formed based on faith. That is dangerous.
Yes, I agree with this. Faith isn't bad in itself, but people using 'faith' as an excuse to do extremely destructive things has likely soiled the word for me forever.
>Faith isn't bad in itself
Depending on how you define faith yeah it is inherently bad.
Usually when people say "faith" they mean belief in something without evidence. This is always irrational and wrong. Everyone should be able to provide evidence for everything they believe.
There is a lot of evidence that religious organizations provide the most assistance to the homeless and other at-risk groups. I guess you could argue that is a failure of our government but nevertheless.
Lots of people believe in harmless things with little to no evidence. And "evidence for what you believe" is so incredibly vague. Do you mean personal experience? Or a peer reviewed study?
Just because something is irrational doesn't make it wrong.
I wish people wouldn’t use faith to do that. It’s a reality. But there is the other side of that reality where faith helps a lot of people.
I am not comfortable forcing laws on anyone based on faith. I differ from some believers that way (I.e abortion laws) That’s not my battle to fight on though. I like the daily help a neighbor out role.
Perhaps people like yourself need to become more vocal and let it be seen that the loudest and most domineering voices do not speak for all those of faith. Otherwise, your silence may be seen as agreement.
I do almost daily. When someone starts in on the whole being gay damns your soul shit show speech. I remind their lame ass they should finish the Bible. It says we don’t live by the Old Testament (first part of the Bible) and we live by the New Testament (the end of Bible) where it says the only thing that matters is Love and Forgiveness. Oh, and if you want to get down to detail, It doesn’t say shit about sexuality orientation. It does have a nice piece to offer about divorce though. In fact it’s says no one should get married because as humans, we are incapable of be perfect for another person. But he gave us marriage for us. Not shit about what sex they had to be. Dude, I could go on for hours.
Well to be fair, no one is perfect and we don’t live by the Old Testament. But I absolutely get where you coming from. It’s not our Job to be judgey snobs. It’s our job to love and forgive one another. Which is way harder. But I have found the hard choice is usually the right one, and they align with the commandments.
I've given up I hate seeing this view spouted that all Christians are this hateful group. I'm not American so I can't really vouch for them but my Anglican church everyone is loving and welcoming to anyone. I've tried arguing that but nobody listens they think I'm delusional because they met one horrible person who happened to be Christian in their life.
It's not anyone's job to try to shout over the extremists from any side of the political aisle. It's impossible to be louder than them. They are extremists for a reason and get the attention or are highlighted by those with agendas. It's like when Fox news focused on BLM rioters Instead of the literal majority of peaceful protestors. Even as protestors denounced the rioters who got the majority of airtime from Fox? And who is seen as the face of last summers protests with Fox viewers? That's right "Antifa" and the rioters.
It's our job instead to hold individuals responsible for their actions not take the intellectually lazy route and use them to cast blame on people we don't agree anyways.
Very first hospitals were created by the Catholic churches and for a long time churches were the main helpers of the homeless and the poor despite some within the church also being horrible human beings that hurt others Mother Theresa is just one example of what people of faith do daily even when they don't always get recognized like her.
The homeless shelter and food kitchen I volunteered at is completely run by a church as are many outreach programs for the less fortunate. Lots of charities are run by people of faith with a mission to help others.
MT was a terrible sadist, she thought suffering was good for people. She gave very poor care to those who trusted her but used an American hospital when she herself was sick. There’s a lot of room to go on about how the Catholic Church protects pedos, but that’s another conversation.
Yeah. I dgaf if you believe in a god or which one you believe in. You do you. But you start telling me I'm going to hell and ordering me to live my life according to your precepts then I start caring. Leave me out of your delusions
Especially when someone is homophobic and uses the bible or any other religious book to back it up. At that point I think people are allowed to challenge that person’s beliefs.
Yes, because disliking someone for say, the color of their skin, is the same thing as disliking them for the irrational views that they voluntarily cling to despite having no evidence...
Isn’t “faith” the problem tho? Not the faith you put In Your friends, but the kind where you mentally and communally give your self a free card for a lapse in logic and reason? I have never heard any one running a reasonable argument to why they are religious. There is always a leap in that argument where
You have to accept an imaginary fact.
Nobody cares if you believe in God. Just don’t proselytize to people and nobody will know the difference. Christians are known for butting into conversations that are none of their business. Such as the discussions about gay marriage or abortion.
Non-Christians are not beholden to the Christian worldview or ideology, we aren’t sinners and we don’t need to be saved.
It's kind of funny how quickly people equate "I consider myself religious, and appreciate my religious community" with "I take every word of the Bible at face value, and don't believe science." It's possible to do both. Once, on this very sub, I tried to explain that it's possible to be religious but still have personal interpretations of religion that allow you to keep up with social progress of the time, and someone kept shooting me down, saying that anyone who listens to a 2 thousand year-old book is an idiot by default. It's such a lack of nuance, I hate it
I was having trouble expressing this exact thought process. I agree with you heavily. There was a conversation I responded to the other day in which a Christian individual spoke about how they hate when Christians act holier than thou and overly judgmental based on their belief system—I THOROUGHLY agree with that. There are many things in the Bible that get a “?” from me. Likewise, there are many things I interpret differently than others. Someone whose only purpose on Reddit is to make people feel bad for believing in God had to respond something rude to me about my beliefs regardless, like…? I believe in respecting everyone’s beliefs. Whether you believe in God or not, I’m down to listen because I know there are things that are unbelievable and likewise I understand favoring a scientific view over a religious one, etc. Like I have no desire to disrespect your ideologies, I’d just rather not be insulted for saying something as simple as I believe in God. Feels gross, man.
I felt this and I love how you talked about interpretation to keep up. I have similar thinking, I’m just not the best at writing them down. Much better speaker
Because there is no nuance to it. Do you believe in Harry Potter or Lord of the ring? Of course not they're fiction. So is the Bible and other religious works. The only difference is that you got told one is real as a kid and haven't grown up since.
I don't believe that Hamlet is real, but I could still read it as a lesson about how indecisiveness can harm your life. I don't believe that Dorian Gray is real, but I can read his story as a cautionary tale about the danger letting yourself get obsessed with appearances and social standing, and how it will ruin the relationships you've cultivated. Hell, I don't believe Ted Lasso is real, but I can come out of the show understanding the value of asking questions and being curious rather than being judgmental.
You see my point?
I never said I believe everything in the Bible is real. Honestly, I believe that very little of it is. There's historical evidence that Jesus was a real person, but I don't actually believe he multiplied fish and walked on water. Stories don't have to be real to have power, and that's kinda what I'm getting at here. We, as people can derive value from stories, even if they're fictional. And that's where (in my opinion) the power of religion still lies
Once they state their beliefs, it's fair that we state ours as well. The other day a co worker was rambling about how he was a jesus freak. jesus this jesus that. I let him know my beliefs as a non believer. That's that.
If all it was was y’all “having faith” nobody would give two shits… what makes y’all a target is you never shut up about it, you assume your faith is the correct one and everybody else is going to suffer in hell so you try to convert us, and you attempt to use your faith to create laws that benefit you and nobody else…
Have your faith, that’s fine… just keep it to yourself. I don’t want to join you at church, I don’t want you to pray for me, and I don’t want to know anything about it or if I do I’ll ask.
And for the record, I grew up in religion. My parents spent a good 8 years of my childhood “church shopping” because they didn’t like the church they had. Tried about 2 dozen other churches and wound up right back where they started… the church does not have a monopoly on good deeds or community service (in fact in my experience atheists do a better job of both of those) and your “faith” means nothing if you only do good deeds because of the threat of eternal damnation instead of because it’s the right thing to do…
When something bad happens y’all send “thoughts and prayers” like that does anybody any good whatsoever. But when the shit hits the fan for y’all it’s suddenly time to open your wallet and give to the church. All I ever see is rank hypocrisy from many religious folks and it paints the entire ethos in a bad light but that’s the case for everything sadly and religion is no exemption.
Is it lame that you’re a target of internet ridicule? Yeah sure… but did y’all bring it upon yourselves by decades of stupid? Abso-fucking-lutely…
Believe in God all you want and I dont care. Problem is that churches and many religious people then try to push that faith on to the rest of us who just want to be left alone. Pushes for school prayer. Missionaries showing up our door trying to convert us. Trying to encode their religion into the law based on their religions current view of what is moral or not. That's when those of us who dont believe are going to push back and be especially mocking.
In my area, it's very common to see preachers from Christian groups in the local shopping precinct on a weekend afternoon, yelling into a megaphone about how everyone who doesn't repent and join the church is going to hell. I am genuinely curious if that's ever worked on anyone. I assume it must be part of their particular beliefs but personally I just find it really off-putting. And I say that as someone who was brought up Catholic, was an altar girl, went to church regularly until I moved away and have family members who still go to Mass every Sunday etc.
I've got no problem with people believing whatever they like providing it doesn't hurt other people. What I do have an issue with though is people aggressively their religious beliefs, of any faith, onto others who are just trying to go about their day. If people want to explore a particular faith, they can go to the relevant religious building/centre or read up and find out more themselves. But just randomly telling passersby that they're sinners unless they believe in one particular faith seems counterproductive somehow.
I would hope you would then only remain callous at those who did show up at the door, or did give you a forceful conversation, or who push for ultimate conformity in faith.
We aren’t all like that, and I would hate to be judged or dismissed based on other’s actions. I think it’s definitely an individual basis.
It isn’t just religious zealots. Have you ever seen a vegan, political extremist, or [insert hobby] enthusiast? It is a problem with humanity, but religion.
If you talk about your faith openly on social media then people have the right to make criticisms.
Sure, people can go overboard and there's never an excuse to be hateful, however religion has being doing exactly that for millennia. If you believe in holy books which are innately problematic, you shouldn't expect a totally smooth response.
There are many forms of religion which are relatively harmless and I don't think many people have a problem with this besides the fact it seems rather unnecessary. It seems like it's the things surrounding religion which believers often quote as good rather than the actual act of believing in the supernatural.
Even your own justifications for religion aren't a specific defence of religion itself. You can find community, comfort and a sense of drive in many non religious areas and without all the irrational/opressive baggage.
Its the internet, we have literal reseaech papers on why you should not give the internet an input, if you are going to post anything and I mean ANYTHING on the internet expect people to react to it, I mean that is the point of social media. Otherwise get off social media.
Religion is like a penis .....
>*” Religion is like a penis: it's fine to have one, it's fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out and start waving it around in public, and please don't try to shove it down my children's throats”*
You made a response to my post, who's to say whether I wanted any replies ?
The fact of the matter is, If you make the decision to post publicly, then people have the right to respond. This is especially true for platforms like Reddit which are. intended for conversational threads. Whether you engage with someones response is still up to you but if you want to avoid the opinions of others completely then you should keep your conversations private.
I'm not saying all criticisms are just or that people shouldn't get offended. I'm fully aware people can be unnecessarily brutal on the internet however you shouldn't expect people not to respond at all, especially in regards to controversial topics like religion. If you present a faith in a positive light as you have the right to do, then people should also have the right to express the opposing view if they so wish.
What do you expect people to do when seeing something that they feel is factually or morally wrong....not criticise it ?
People can have faith and religion in things besides God. Ie a man who religiously drinks tea every morning. A lot of people condemning Christianity are themselves extremely superstitious and dogmatic, but they see their own beliefs as so factual that they dont realize it.
>A lot of people ~~condemning Christianity~~ are themselves extremely superstitious and dogmatic, but they see their own beliefs as so factual that they dont realize it.
FTFY
Oh good god yes, Reddit does this with "science."
The average redditor doesn't understand most of what they're talking shit, but some smart guy said it, and so it must be right. Science had become our new dogma. Surrendering reason is never good
Uhhh no it's not.
>Reason is the capacity of consciously applying logic to seek truth and draw conclusions from new or existing information.It is closely associated with such characteristically human activities as philosophy, science, language, mathematics, and art
Science involves reasoning to an extent but so do the other fields mentioned above. Science _itself_ isn't reason.
The scientific method is maybe the best way we know of “consciously applying logic to seek truth and draw conclusions from new or existing information.” Science is an application of reasoning.
Nope, Science is a process. It ...‘the process’ .... can never be wrong, as it is part of the scientific process to correct for errors when found.
The fact so many religious people think this, clearly demonstrates that they do not understand ‘science’
Yeah, I've had people arguing "X is scientifically proven" ask for a source and I get downvotes and snark, ask again, get link to study and it outlines in jargon that "X could not be proven and the study is inconclusive" but they don't understand that and I can't be bothered to try and explain it to them.
If both good and bad things have come from religion then it's as if it isn't religion which is responsible for them. People do good or bad things (according to your own personal moral compass).
To me, I just don't get how you people can support all those rapists. I'm not trying to be edgy, even your pope came out and said "hey let's stop raping little boys now".
Also pay your god damn taxes, it's stupid that churches don't have to.
I'm not religious, but believing in God does not have to mean you support the Catholic Church.
It sounds odd, but there are plenty of people who believe, and practice in their own way, and never go to church, nor defend the people abusing their power.
There are so many other Christian faiths that are not Catholic or anything like them, but for some reason everyone on reddit thinks Christian = Catholic.
Because the other religious sects are still terrible money scams. You ever notice how churches are highly decorated, with golden statues, beautiful windows, the whole 9 yards.
All the while they ask for donations from poor people. For centuries. And why? So they can receive some magical afterlife? Get real. "Pay me money and when you die you'll get to paradise". I mean come on.
Look, I’m an anti religious Satanist but not every denomination of Christianity decorates ostentatiously or ask for money to get to heaven. That’s actually almost entirely Catholics and the orthodoxy. If you look into Anglican tradition, everybody from kings to peasants get the same, simple funeral and the Presbyterian minister that raised me used to say; “All you need in this world is Oatmeal and the Catechism.” Go visit some churches, talk to some people, read a history book or two and really consider why you don’t like religion, because it’s pretty clear right now that you’re bullshitting.
It's just straight up not just Catholics that decorate their churches and it's really tiring hearing that. Other religious sects have literal *megachurches* that are not catholic at all.
I hate religion for many reasons, decorated temples being the least of them
It's a way to manipulate the poor people in your population, that's it. That is all religion is. It's a way to get people to hate other people so they'll follow what you say. It's pretty easy to get the poor and uneducated people behind a war effort if you tell them "the other guys religion is bad"
Have *you* read a history book?? Or are you just skipping over the majority of humankind? Religion is a way to control people. That's all. Stop glorifying it.
My dad is a Presbyterian minister. We talked about this last night, actually. He’s always been kind of critical of religious organizations and I asked him if he really believed in god. He said he believes in God but not the church. When I asked him to clarify that he said something to the effect of the church being constantly ready to substitute itself for the divine but that’s actually just idolatry. I mentioned that when you consider that it really helps root out who’s a “Real Christian” and who’s just exploiting people and he told me that’s idolatry as well. Faith is fine if it’s what motivates you but it hasn’t got jack shit to do with anybody else or a church. Tbh I think we mistake religious trauma for faith far too often.
This is an example of what I said in another comment, that extending the very worst behaviors of some religious people to the entirety of the religion is dumb.
Do you see how illogical it is to say that anyone who is a Christian is supporting rapists? Child rape is committed by people of all religions, non-religions, ideologies, and political leanings.
Also, churches are entities. Individual people have no say whether churches pay taxes. People who are religious pay all the same taxes you have to.
I dont think you understand the problem here. The Catholic Church spent decades protecting child rapists from the law. They actively tried to undermine investigations into those cases all the while claiming to be better than everyone else. If they had handed over those sick fucks to the cops as soon as they found out about them then I doubt a lot of people would hate the Church.
No, I understand all that. What I’m saying is that the vaaaaast majority of people who are Catholic aren’t participating in any of that process. They’re not child rapists or protecting child rapists. Why extend your judgement of the organization to all people who believe in Catholicism?
It doesn't matter if you aren't the ones raping people. You are donating to rapists, you show up every Sunday to a rapists house to listen to a rapist speak. Those rapists can be and are community leaders.
I extend my judgement to you because you're defending rapists, and why? So you can get into heaven? Pretty selfish if you ask me.
Because you put your faith in an organization that chooses to protect its own image over the well being of children. Every organization has bad apples but that's not the point here. It went all the way up to the top, the previous Pope knew all of it and didnt do a damn thing about it. How can you claim to be the only way to reach God while protecting some of the most vile people on the planet? Do you not see the hypocrisy in that?
Downplaying the mass-rape the church has been doing for CENTURIES is beyond fucked up and this is why I can't stand religious people. It's not just "some religious people", it's *your leaders*. It's the people who preach.
Idc if religious people pay taxes, idc why churches don't have to pay taxes, the reason is archaic and shouldn't be used in 2021. They should absolutely pay taxes.
If I find out places are mass raping people, I stop supporting them. I don't find reasons to defend them. Idc if other people rape, when that happens there are consequences. When a priest fucks an 11 year old choir boy he gets moved to another church, similar to how cops work when they murder people.
I’m not catholic.
We’re talking about scale here. The number of people involved in the catholic rape scandal compared to all Catholics. I’m not downplaying it. I’m saying it’s silly to extend that to every catholic person.
And you can’t possibly you don’t support ANY organization connected to fucked up stuff, right? The US military uses the Marvel movies as propaganda, and they engage in mass rape of the women involved in the military. Would you say everyone who watched Black Widow is supporting rape in the army?
Bold of you to assume I support the military champ, and you know why I don't? They fucking rape people. You're damn right I don't support our military. It is disgusting what they do to women/homosexuals, the rape, the acid attacks, the quid pro quo.
You're going through some deep mental gymnastics to try and justify your support for rapists.
Sorry I made you think about things you want to sweep under the rug so you can still get into heaven, but your leaders are rapists, or people who cover up rape.
I'll repeat it -- you've got the intellect of a child.
*My* leaders? I am not religious, nor was there any such implication. One day hopefully you will realize that everything is not black and white, nor in the colors your glasses presents them to you.
You aren't the main character of the world, nor were you the person I was replying to. You're very vain lol.
If they weren't your leaders, why would you react to a comment that wasn't directed to you? Hmmm
You even said *my leaders* like I was talking to you. If they weren't your leaders, you wouldn't have said that.
If you give money to the Catholic Church, or any organised religion, then you are supporting pedophiles. It's as simple as that. It DOES extend to the entire religion, and everyone in it who still supports it even after we know what happens behind the scenes.
That’s completely ridiculous. If US military members rape women overseas, are you supporting rape when you pay your taxes? Are you supporting the Chinese government’s atrocities every time you post on Reddit? Are you supporting child labor every time you buy an iPhone?
This is what I mean. Why are we extending this completely inconsistent moral compass to just religion? In what other area of your life do you believe that atrocities committed by any individuals in an institution poison the entire institution, and that participation in that institution means you support every atrocity committed by anyone in the institution?
Who are you people? As far is I know, child rape is happening/happened in some communities within the catholic church. As horrible as that is, it's not a reason to judge all religious people/Christians.
If the owner of a sports team came out and said "The [name of the team] has had a gigantic problem with raping little boys for hundreds of years now. It's time to stop."
I would *IMMEDIATELY* stop supporting that team. Anyone who still supported that team after the owner came out and admitted his organization has been raping 10 year olds, I will judge heavily and think they don't really care about little boys being raped.
Please tell me how the pope admitting to centuries of rape is any different.
Well then you have to move out of whatever country you live in too because all countries have committed atrocities. And you support them by living in them you monster
Oh boo hoo. I can’t even tell people in my community that I don’t believe. They’ll consider me an outcast immediately and avoid me like the plague. I’ll lose job opportunities and people will keep their kids away from my kids. That’s real life. You’re worried about some internet strangers who don’t believe in your specific belief, poke a little fun, and now you consider yourself persecuted. You are by far the majority in most communities in real life. Upvoted!
OP is upset that internet strangers don’t like their belief. But the reality is that some people are tied to a community that they are unable to leave for multiple reasons.
No I’m not upset that people don’t like my religion or agree with me. That’s juvenile. What I don’t appreciate is people dismissing and mocking other good people for just having a certain faith. Especially if something bad happens to that person and then there is a string of comments saying “looks like they didn’t pray hard enough lol” or “I thought your god was gonna save you” or some other rude shit. That’s not right, cause people are more complex than that.
Live and let live, I'd say. I don't think anyone who's an educated and free thinking individual commend faiths, churches and other organizations that use people. But it's equally ignorant to condemn people with faith, as it is for believers to condemn people who don't. If people could just be kind and respect each other, without using, hurting and surpress others, the world would be a better place. But we all know that's an impossible utopia, because people are people.
I think it would be rad if someone took time out of their day to explain some of the magical tings they believe in, like basic religious stuff: God, afterlife and souls In a objective and logical way. God is not your personal ide so just talk about it in a non personal way. You are trying to understand/figure out this ide called god. At lest your personal view on it? That's the hole "struggle" part of any believer right..? lol
Just so I know that your not a part of the group of complete idiot's that don't dare or know how to be critical about their own personal views and the ideas they adapted in their life time..
"So many amazing leaders and influential people in history had faith and it helped the world." Haha you believers sure got a good sense of humor.. or no sense of history. Hard to tell sometimes.. Did your mom tell you that you was "different" and not stupid lol?
Atheists get literally killed some places. Even in the US there are severe consequences in some Southern towns if your community finds out youre an atheist. Polls show people hate us. Which is whataboutism i guess but. Faith is stupid wgd?
Faith is fine. As long as people do not try to legislate or force their beliefs on others I could not care less.
Religion as a concept is an exclusionary concept (like the concept of "whiteness" is based upon who is NOT considered "white" rather than who is) and religions of all kinds have murdered untold millions of people. That's why people don't like religion.
Welcome to how the minority feels. Your belief system being attacked in a public forum, or worse people voicing their concern that all organized faiths are no more than cults. Oh no! Imagine if this has an effect on you at work, school, the laws that govern you, or even when you need to get medical care. . . Oh wait . . .
This isn’t an unpopular opinion. Most people you interact with have “faith”. Shame you view freedoms of speech in a positive light only when your “faith” is the ones being critical of others.
As one of the most solid atheists you could ever meet, I wholeheartedly agree with this post.
As a pragmatist, I have to acknowledge that faith works. Religion works. One cannot argue with such success.
The truth is, I am a little bit jealous of those with Faith. It clearly is comforting for them, and I clearly have never possessed it.
Militant atheism is to me a religion.
Yeah. Am all for shutting down whichever pieces of religions hurt people and have to go, but some people are just religiously intolerant - and tend to conflate all religion with Christianity.
It's okay to believe in stuff.
People who mock any mention of religion with "haha, you're an idiot with a sky fairy" type shit are edgy and obnoxious.
Nobody's asking you to convert...just be polite for a hot minute.
You are invested in your religion, it forms part of your identity, it provides you with a community that accepts and values you, it gives you guidance and meaning.
You value it.
But at the same time you understand that it doesn't hold water. You have tried to use it in intellectual settings and discovered that it cannot withstand rational interrogation. You felt stupid.
But you cannot bear to abandon your religion and forgo the benefits it gives you, so you pretend that the feelings of stupidity were the result of a personal attack rather than demonstration of the logical flaws.
Uh. Lol. Okay. I think you may have thought my post was about feeling stupid. Which could have been through a lack of clarity. But nah.
Personal values hold as much water as you allow it to. So the phrase “it doesn’t hold water” seems presumptuous of my life.
And rational interrogation was not what happened. What happened was a mocking of someone’s belief instead of tackling the person’s personal choices.
And you’re assuming I was offered a “demonstration of logical flaws”
This is the shit I’m talking about. You grouped me into an ideology or thought without any significant information about me.
Just the fact I had faith.
Yes, just the fact you had faith.
I don't have faith in ideas, I test them, I challenge them and I abandon them when they don't hold up.
Testing God is sacrilege. Abandoning God leads to an eternity of suffering.
There's a reason religions are exclusive (e.g. Thou shalt have no other got but me), you can't reconcile multiple religions because they offer different answers to the same questions.
Oh yes this. Totally true. I think science and faith can be in harmony. I honestly don’t understand anyone who rejects science completely just cause of faith.
It’s only a problem when the believers start projecting their beliefs towards every non believer. Start trying to integrate it into law. Yell from the streets that everyone else is going to hell. Protest abortion clinics. IMO, Christianity has got to be the most aggressive religion- it has scarred me from ever practicing religion again and my life feels lighter and easier not having to worry about punishment for having normal human thoughts.
Christianity definitely isn’t supposed to be like that. It’s not the religion that’s that way, it’s some of the people. The people take it too far and it’s disgusting. I promise we’re not all that way and we’re not supposed to be. They took a beatiful religion and made it perceived as hateful
my country is a backwards shithole because of religion and we dont have some human rights. fuck religion. fuck it for making my life as a non cishet person harder. fuck it for corrupting people. hate the belief, love the believer or something
Ugh man. That sucks. I don’t think anyone should be forced into anything. Oppression blows and reminds me if I have it a lot easier than some. It should always be a choice and I forget sometimes that choice is taken away.
It hurts my heart that this is a reality. I do my best to love my neighbor and that does not include any kind of oppression at all, and I wish everyone could have had only the great experiences you can with faith.
The thing is even religious people who are not assholes hold closely held beliefs about a great many things that affect the rest of us (like policies on abortion, euthanasia, teaching science in schools, acceptance of gay community, tax resources, etc.). These beliefs don’t exist in a bubble where they don’t interact with the non-believing world.
As for prayer in particular, I’m tired of this being a solution to school shootings and a shit healthcare system. The interested parties here (gun nuts and for profit healthcare companies) use this as a distraction tool to get us from passing meaningful reforms to help people and it angers me that it doesn’t anger religious people who see their religion used as a tool to keep society from progressing.
Lastly, when talking about the issues I mentioned earlier, reasoning and logic only have a limited effect on people who literally suspend reason and logic to maintain their religious beliefs and stand in the way of us progressing in those issues. So while religion might be special for you, it can be a problem for the rest of us when you stand in the way of improving society in a real way.
If you want to belong to an organization that is well known for hurting lots of people then be prepared to be lumped in as someone who is willing to hurt lots of people. Plain and simple.
Jesus Christ these comments are fucking ruthless. Really proves your point. A lot of people in the comments are going after the Catholic church which is stupid because you very specifically didn't specify a single religion. I'll be honest, I think religion has done more harm than good and as long as they are as big as they are, they won't get better and just act as a hub for rapist and money hungry horrible people to thrive off of people's faith. That being said I don't judge people for the act of believing in something. If it makes them feel comforted then who am I to tell them what to think. My issue is more with the religious organizations and the uglier side, and this might sound naive but I do think that there's a way for faith to exist without this horrible side of it taking away from it all. I don't know how but hopefully someday.
I was just thinking the same thing. This kind of does prove my point. No one has any clue whether or not I push my religion on anyone, or any of my political opinions and if they even coincide. Many assumed I dismiss history. Many assumed so much of me with such little info lol. I appreciate you noticing lol
I agree. As a Christian, I see other Christians being VERY condescending and treating people terribly. I understand why they get the crap they do- they treat people exactly how Jesus DIDNT want us to treat people. I treat everyone with as much love and acceptance as I possibly can, and I’m sorry that too many people haven’t been treated that way. It makes us look bad, it really does. So I’m sorry on behalf of the Christians who are being awful. We’re not all that way 🧡 and ps, yes I do believe in science.
Thanks. As someone who's part of a religious group and active in supporting those with other faiths I really dont understand why theres always a jerk who's gonna jump into a post or conversation and start making fun of us or ask us lots of either nonsense or heavy questions.
Even if we answer them reasonably or even not answer at all they start throwing crap.
Right?! I also don’t appreciate that people group me in with other ideologies because I believe in god. Got accused of trying to convince everyone 2021 is a normal year and told to pray to my invisible friend lol. Dude has no idea who I am and groups me in with others first chance.
I am an atheist/agnostic, and seen more hate coming from "extreme" atheist than from religious people. Now where I live I haven't met a lot of catholic people, but Islam is a quite popular religion. Since I was a child, kids who were Muslim never really mentioned it, never bothered other about it, all I knew was that they couldn't eat some meat.
On the other hand, I have seen a lot of children making fun of them for stuff they don't even know why. Have seen mother outraged that my nanny came to pick me up with a veil on her hair. My father hates with a passion every religion and religious people he sees. And they spit on innocent people who did nothing wrong apart from believing in a god.
It would be so nice if people made the difference between religion and religious people. To see that everyone practice their faith their own way. If they learn to listen instead of always summoning war upon every faith having people. Talking with a lot of my religious friend I have learned a lot of stuff, and understood that a lot of their principle was common to mine and that we shared a lot of values. That what was written in a book was not a strict set of rules, but a guide to help you go through life. And most importantly, that the best of religious people knew that what you live is between you and your lord.
I have a lot of respect for believers who think like that. I don't know if it is common, or weel seen in the religion, but I don't care. I know now that these community have a lot more diversity that what my father told me when I was a kid. I don't define myself as an atheist, I don't fight for atheist values against religion. I am a human person who lives with my own believes, and I am at peace when the person in front of me treats me with respect, and I treat them with respect as well.
I don't fight against religions nor against atheism, I fight against lack of respect, lack of humanity, regardless of your beliefs.
Just tell them you're Muslim, not Christian, and they'll get over it *real quick.* When Redditors say religion/faith is bad, *even though they won't admit it*, (and in fact they may not even be consciously aware they are doing it) they are *specifically* referring to Christianity *only*, not any other religion and *definitely* not Islam.
My step father is a minister, and he is a very nice and smart person. I just do not like hearing stuff about religion the same way religious people might hate atheist talk. What I do find stupid is using your religion as a form of defense against things like Covid or cancer. That straight up pisses me off.
Nobody knows about what you believe in unless you tell them.
And when you tell people stupid stuff that holds no value in our society, you should be prepared to be ridiculed. Nothing rude about that. You want your faith be untouched? Keep it to yourself.
All the good things faith supposedly did are outweight 100x by all the bad things. It doesnt require faith to do good things, so that is kind of a non-argument.
Feeling like it makes you a target is just selfvictimization, because that conduct is good and is not unique to faith in any way. Anything stupid and not grounded in reality gets attacked here.
> Having faith doesn’t make you stupid, it just makes us different.
It depends on how you define stupid. I’d argue someone very religious with a 180 IQ is still stupid on one level.
I dislike religion because i simply had negative experiences with it. I used to pray as a kid, yet didn't get blessed, instead cursed, which simply threw away all my belief and changed my opinion, that even if he did exist, i would hate him. Now i dont hate people who do believe, but so far, most of them in my experience have been very forceful about it and cant help but hate me for just not believing.
Oh man I totally agree. I’ve run into plenty of that myself. I will say there are such loving believers out there who care more about you loving you than you agreeing with their belief. I like helping people feel good about themselves and a lot of the times I don’t need to talk about religion to do that. There is a time and place.
The amount of people who have a go at religions for being intolerant whilst doing the same is always quite funny to me. Two wrongs don’t make a right and a lot of the time it’s just an attempt to be holier than thou (see what I did there). I’m not conventionally religious but don’t really think of myself as an atheist either. Live and let live. Anyone who spends time on the internet or in real life telling people there wrong and there is a better way to live life inevitably ends up on shaky ground in the long term. Always try to learn from people you disagree with or live differently from you. no matter where you’re from or what you believe.
I agree, and this is definitely unpopular on Reddit. I don’t know why Redditors can’t see the obvious soft benefits of faith, or why they extend the very worst religious-based behaviors in human history to all people who have faith.
Like, there’s a radical fascist Islamic sect thousands of miles away from you that you’ll never encounter in real life. Why have you decided to judge the entirety of the Muslim faith based on that? And why do you have empathy for those who’ve been hurt by religion, but none for those who’ve been hurt because they were of a certain religion?
I hate when it's forced into unrelated threads. Like finance or stocks. "Don't invest in that company ceo is a christian" or " don't use that bank they deal with xyz" etc. I'm here to make money not debate theology.
Atheist here, agree fully. Faith and loyalty to God, Allah, Mother Earth, Fellow Human, Ganesha are all to be admired and I respect that. If it brings you peace and helps bring comfort to the universe I’m on board.
A lot of do gooders, non profit leaders, charity workers, or even just everyday people helping others are lead by their faith and values. Faith guides a lot of us to do truly impactful things for each other. I think that makes the world a better place. Maybe not in a huge showy way, but it makes a difference. Just a good deed at a time.
Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/Independent_Pear3459. Your post, *I think it’s lame that having faith makes you a target on Reddit these days.*, has been removed because it violates our rules: Rule 3: Megathread topic. Your opinion falls under an incredibly common topic, in which virtually all opinions are either not unpopular, or are posted about many times a day. Please visit the megathread hub, which can be found when sorting the subreddit by "hot", sticky'd at the top of the page, where you can find links to the current megathreads. If you're not sure which megathread your post belongs in, or your post covers multiple megathread topics, just make the best selection you can. If there is an issue, please message the mod team at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion Thanks!
Of course everyone is allowed to have faith. But faith isn’t a pathway to truth, since you can hold ANY position based on faith. And that same faith doesn’t live in a vaccuum unfortunately. Faith is used to oppress and discriminate people. People want laws to be formed based on faith. That is dangerous.
Yes, I agree with this. Faith isn't bad in itself, but people using 'faith' as an excuse to do extremely destructive things has likely soiled the word for me forever.
>Faith isn't bad in itself Depending on how you define faith yeah it is inherently bad. Usually when people say "faith" they mean belief in something without evidence. This is always irrational and wrong. Everyone should be able to provide evidence for everything they believe.
There is a lot of evidence that religious organizations provide the most assistance to the homeless and other at-risk groups. I guess you could argue that is a failure of our government but nevertheless.
*tips fedora*
Amazing argument. Thank you for your contribution to this discussion.
Could say the same for you! I'm not even religious you're just cringe.
That shit is just old at this point, not everyone critical of religion is some sort of cheeto dust-huffing obese man. Most aren’t.
Lots of people believe in harmless things with little to no evidence. And "evidence for what you believe" is so incredibly vague. Do you mean personal experience? Or a peer reviewed study? Just because something is irrational doesn't make it wrong.
Ight but how does that affect u
Absolutely this
I wish people wouldn’t use faith to do that. It’s a reality. But there is the other side of that reality where faith helps a lot of people. I am not comfortable forcing laws on anyone based on faith. I differ from some believers that way (I.e abortion laws) That’s not my battle to fight on though. I like the daily help a neighbor out role.
Perhaps people like yourself need to become more vocal and let it be seen that the loudest and most domineering voices do not speak for all those of faith. Otherwise, your silence may be seen as agreement.
I do almost daily. When someone starts in on the whole being gay damns your soul shit show speech. I remind their lame ass they should finish the Bible. It says we don’t live by the Old Testament (first part of the Bible) and we live by the New Testament (the end of Bible) where it says the only thing that matters is Love and Forgiveness. Oh, and if you want to get down to detail, It doesn’t say shit about sexuality orientation. It does have a nice piece to offer about divorce though. In fact it’s says no one should get married because as humans, we are incapable of be perfect for another person. But he gave us marriage for us. Not shit about what sex they had to be. Dude, I could go on for hours.
Sometimes I wonder if some "christians" forget that the 10 testaments exists or not.
Well to be fair, no one is perfect and we don’t live by the Old Testament. But I absolutely get where you coming from. It’s not our Job to be judgey snobs. It’s our job to love and forgive one another. Which is way harder. But I have found the hard choice is usually the right one, and they align with the commandments.
This definitely true. Many Christians don’t read their holy book.
I've given up I hate seeing this view spouted that all Christians are this hateful group. I'm not American so I can't really vouch for them but my Anglican church everyone is loving and welcoming to anyone. I've tried arguing that but nobody listens they think I'm delusional because they met one horrible person who happened to be Christian in their life.
Bruh Anglican is way different from the shitty racist baptists we have. Or the shitty racist Mormons.
Good for you. Sometimes,after you truly hear you can truly see the good. And damn, that feeling is good.
It's not anyone's job to try to shout over the extremists from any side of the political aisle. It's impossible to be louder than them. They are extremists for a reason and get the attention or are highlighted by those with agendas. It's like when Fox news focused on BLM rioters Instead of the literal majority of peaceful protestors. Even as protestors denounced the rioters who got the majority of airtime from Fox? And who is seen as the face of last summers protests with Fox viewers? That's right "Antifa" and the rioters. It's our job instead to hold individuals responsible for their actions not take the intellectually lazy route and use them to cast blame on people we don't agree anyways.
Good words. Loud and lowest common denominator seems to be the American squeaky wheel.
You can help a neighbor out daily without the need for faith it's called just being a good person.
You continue to state that faith has done a lot of good in the world. Example?
Very first hospitals were created by the Catholic churches and for a long time churches were the main helpers of the homeless and the poor despite some within the church also being horrible human beings that hurt others Mother Theresa is just one example of what people of faith do daily even when they don't always get recognized like her. The homeless shelter and food kitchen I volunteered at is completely run by a church as are many outreach programs for the less fortunate. Lots of charities are run by people of faith with a mission to help others.
MT was a terrible sadist, she thought suffering was good for people. She gave very poor care to those who trusted her but used an American hospital when she herself was sick. There’s a lot of room to go on about how the Catholic Church protects pedos, but that’s another conversation.
I have faith that OP has 7lbs of meth in his possession.
In my experience people on Reddit only have an issue when people weaponise their faith (which happens often).
Yeah. I dgaf if you believe in a god or which one you believe in. You do you. But you start telling me I'm going to hell and ordering me to live my life according to your precepts then I start caring. Leave me out of your delusions
Especially when someone is homophobic and uses the bible or any other religious book to back it up. At that point I think people are allowed to challenge that person’s beliefs.
Having faith isn't the problem. Preaching to people about your faith and expecting other people to live by the rules of your faith is the problem.
Yes, because disliking someone for say, the color of their skin, is the same thing as disliking them for the irrational views that they voluntarily cling to despite having no evidence...
Isn’t “faith” the problem tho? Not the faith you put In Your friends, but the kind where you mentally and communally give your self a free card for a lapse in logic and reason? I have never heard any one running a reasonable argument to why they are religious. There is always a leap in that argument where You have to accept an imaginary fact.
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Nobody cares if you believe in God. Just don’t proselytize to people and nobody will know the difference. Christians are known for butting into conversations that are none of their business. Such as the discussions about gay marriage or abortion. Non-Christians are not beholden to the Christian worldview or ideology, we aren’t sinners and we don’t need to be saved.
It's kind of funny how quickly people equate "I consider myself religious, and appreciate my religious community" with "I take every word of the Bible at face value, and don't believe science." It's possible to do both. Once, on this very sub, I tried to explain that it's possible to be religious but still have personal interpretations of religion that allow you to keep up with social progress of the time, and someone kept shooting me down, saying that anyone who listens to a 2 thousand year-old book is an idiot by default. It's such a lack of nuance, I hate it
I was having trouble expressing this exact thought process. I agree with you heavily. There was a conversation I responded to the other day in which a Christian individual spoke about how they hate when Christians act holier than thou and overly judgmental based on their belief system—I THOROUGHLY agree with that. There are many things in the Bible that get a “?” from me. Likewise, there are many things I interpret differently than others. Someone whose only purpose on Reddit is to make people feel bad for believing in God had to respond something rude to me about my beliefs regardless, like…? I believe in respecting everyone’s beliefs. Whether you believe in God or not, I’m down to listen because I know there are things that are unbelievable and likewise I understand favoring a scientific view over a religious one, etc. Like I have no desire to disrespect your ideologies, I’d just rather not be insulted for saying something as simple as I believe in God. Feels gross, man.
I felt this and I love how you talked about interpretation to keep up. I have similar thinking, I’m just not the best at writing them down. Much better speaker
Thank you my friend. I enjoy studying and writing about religion, and it's encouraging to hear you say that
Because there is no nuance to it. Do you believe in Harry Potter or Lord of the ring? Of course not they're fiction. So is the Bible and other religious works. The only difference is that you got told one is real as a kid and haven't grown up since.
I don't believe that Hamlet is real, but I could still read it as a lesson about how indecisiveness can harm your life. I don't believe that Dorian Gray is real, but I can read his story as a cautionary tale about the danger letting yourself get obsessed with appearances and social standing, and how it will ruin the relationships you've cultivated. Hell, I don't believe Ted Lasso is real, but I can come out of the show understanding the value of asking questions and being curious rather than being judgmental. You see my point? I never said I believe everything in the Bible is real. Honestly, I believe that very little of it is. There's historical evidence that Jesus was a real person, but I don't actually believe he multiplied fish and walked on water. Stories don't have to be real to have power, and that's kinda what I'm getting at here. We, as people can derive value from stories, even if they're fictional. And that's where (in my opinion) the power of religion still lies
I hate religion but treat religious people with respect because nothing good comes from ostracizing people for their religion
Once they state their beliefs, it's fair that we state ours as well. The other day a co worker was rambling about how he was a jesus freak. jesus this jesus that. I let him know my beliefs as a non believer. That's that.
If all it was was y’all “having faith” nobody would give two shits… what makes y’all a target is you never shut up about it, you assume your faith is the correct one and everybody else is going to suffer in hell so you try to convert us, and you attempt to use your faith to create laws that benefit you and nobody else… Have your faith, that’s fine… just keep it to yourself. I don’t want to join you at church, I don’t want you to pray for me, and I don’t want to know anything about it or if I do I’ll ask. And for the record, I grew up in religion. My parents spent a good 8 years of my childhood “church shopping” because they didn’t like the church they had. Tried about 2 dozen other churches and wound up right back where they started… the church does not have a monopoly on good deeds or community service (in fact in my experience atheists do a better job of both of those) and your “faith” means nothing if you only do good deeds because of the threat of eternal damnation instead of because it’s the right thing to do… When something bad happens y’all send “thoughts and prayers” like that does anybody any good whatsoever. But when the shit hits the fan for y’all it’s suddenly time to open your wallet and give to the church. All I ever see is rank hypocrisy from many religious folks and it paints the entire ethos in a bad light but that’s the case for everything sadly and religion is no exemption. Is it lame that you’re a target of internet ridicule? Yeah sure… but did y’all bring it upon yourselves by decades of stupid? Abso-fucking-lutely…
Does someone's faith make them.blind? We do not know until they open their mouths. Question based on action.
Faith doesn't necessarily involve belief in God. That being said it's the imposition of your faith to others that's wrong.
Believe in God all you want and I dont care. Problem is that churches and many religious people then try to push that faith on to the rest of us who just want to be left alone. Pushes for school prayer. Missionaries showing up our door trying to convert us. Trying to encode their religion into the law based on their religions current view of what is moral or not. That's when those of us who dont believe are going to push back and be especially mocking.
In my area, it's very common to see preachers from Christian groups in the local shopping precinct on a weekend afternoon, yelling into a megaphone about how everyone who doesn't repent and join the church is going to hell. I am genuinely curious if that's ever worked on anyone. I assume it must be part of their particular beliefs but personally I just find it really off-putting. And I say that as someone who was brought up Catholic, was an altar girl, went to church regularly until I moved away and have family members who still go to Mass every Sunday etc. I've got no problem with people believing whatever they like providing it doesn't hurt other people. What I do have an issue with though is people aggressively their religious beliefs, of any faith, onto others who are just trying to go about their day. If people want to explore a particular faith, they can go to the relevant religious building/centre or read up and find out more themselves. But just randomly telling passersby that they're sinners unless they believe in one particular faith seems counterproductive somehow.
You’re describing behavior that a number of people in almost any ideology or viewpoint would participate in.
I would hope you would then only remain callous at those who did show up at the door, or did give you a forceful conversation, or who push for ultimate conformity in faith. We aren’t all like that, and I would hate to be judged or dismissed based on other’s actions. I think it’s definitely an individual basis.
Change religion for politics. Same story.
Thank you for staying this so perfectly
It isn’t just religious zealots. Have you ever seen a vegan, political extremist, or [insert hobby] enthusiast? It is a problem with humanity, but religion.
Never at my door. I frequently have Jehovahs Witnesses, mormons, and other christians there.
If you talk about your faith openly on social media then people have the right to make criticisms. Sure, people can go overboard and there's never an excuse to be hateful, however religion has being doing exactly that for millennia. If you believe in holy books which are innately problematic, you shouldn't expect a totally smooth response. There are many forms of religion which are relatively harmless and I don't think many people have a problem with this besides the fact it seems rather unnecessary. It seems like it's the things surrounding religion which believers often quote as good rather than the actual act of believing in the supernatural. Even your own justifications for religion aren't a specific defence of religion itself. You can find community, comfort and a sense of drive in many non religious areas and without all the irrational/opressive baggage.
Not every social media post is an invitation for debate.
Its the internet, we have literal reseaech papers on why you should not give the internet an input, if you are going to post anything and I mean ANYTHING on the internet expect people to react to it, I mean that is the point of social media. Otherwise get off social media.
Religion is like a penis ..... >*” Religion is like a penis: it's fine to have one, it's fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out and start waving it around in public, and please don't try to shove it down my children's throats”*
You made a response to my post, who's to say whether I wanted any replies ? The fact of the matter is, If you make the decision to post publicly, then people have the right to respond. This is especially true for platforms like Reddit which are. intended for conversational threads. Whether you engage with someones response is still up to you but if you want to avoid the opinions of others completely then you should keep your conversations private. I'm not saying all criticisms are just or that people shouldn't get offended. I'm fully aware people can be unnecessarily brutal on the internet however you shouldn't expect people not to respond at all, especially in regards to controversial topics like religion. If you present a faith in a positive light as you have the right to do, then people should also have the right to express the opposing view if they so wish. What do you expect people to do when seeing something that they feel is factually or morally wrong....not criticise it ?
And by your logic, it is okay, or even constructive, for some incel to make a creepy comment on some underage girl’s picture.
My existence on social media isn't an invitation for you to proselytize horseshit and call it salvation.
People can have faith and religion in things besides God. Ie a man who religiously drinks tea every morning. A lot of people condemning Christianity are themselves extremely superstitious and dogmatic, but they see their own beliefs as so factual that they dont realize it.
>A lot of people ~~condemning Christianity~~ are themselves extremely superstitious and dogmatic, but they see their own beliefs as so factual that they dont realize it. FTFY
Lol 🤣🤣🤣
Oh good god yes, Reddit does this with "science." The average redditor doesn't understand most of what they're talking shit, but some smart guy said it, and so it must be right. Science had become our new dogma. Surrendering reason is never good
You can’t surrender reason to science…science IS reason.
Uhhh no it's not. >Reason is the capacity of consciously applying logic to seek truth and draw conclusions from new or existing information.It is closely associated with such characteristically human activities as philosophy, science, language, mathematics, and art Science involves reasoning to an extent but so do the other fields mentioned above. Science _itself_ isn't reason.
The scientific method is maybe the best way we know of “consciously applying logic to seek truth and draw conclusions from new or existing information.” Science is an application of reasoning.
Science is a liar… sometimes
Nope, Science is a process. It ...‘the process’ .... can never be wrong, as it is part of the scientific process to correct for errors when found. The fact so many religious people think this, clearly demonstrates that they do not understand ‘science’
Yeah, stupid science bitches! Aristotle, Galileo, Newton, all bitches!
Nope. Only if you're not doing science correctly. **Disregard my comment. Op was quoting IASIP, which means OP is cool.**
I was quoting always sunny.
Shit, sorry saw your second post afterwards.... Always go room for so IASIP.
Yeah, I've had people arguing "X is scientifically proven" ask for a source and I get downvotes and snark, ask again, get link to study and it outlines in jargon that "X could not be proven and the study is inconclusive" but they don't understand that and I can't be bothered to try and explain it to them.
If both good and bad things have come from religion then it's as if it isn't religion which is responsible for them. People do good or bad things (according to your own personal moral compass).
To me, I just don't get how you people can support all those rapists. I'm not trying to be edgy, even your pope came out and said "hey let's stop raping little boys now". Also pay your god damn taxes, it's stupid that churches don't have to.
I'm not religious, but believing in God does not have to mean you support the Catholic Church. It sounds odd, but there are plenty of people who believe, and practice in their own way, and never go to church, nor defend the people abusing their power.
There are so many other Christian faiths that are not Catholic or anything like them, but for some reason everyone on reddit thinks Christian = Catholic.
Because the other religious sects are still terrible money scams. You ever notice how churches are highly decorated, with golden statues, beautiful windows, the whole 9 yards. All the while they ask for donations from poor people. For centuries. And why? So they can receive some magical afterlife? Get real. "Pay me money and when you die you'll get to paradise". I mean come on.
Look, I’m an anti religious Satanist but not every denomination of Christianity decorates ostentatiously or ask for money to get to heaven. That’s actually almost entirely Catholics and the orthodoxy. If you look into Anglican tradition, everybody from kings to peasants get the same, simple funeral and the Presbyterian minister that raised me used to say; “All you need in this world is Oatmeal and the Catechism.” Go visit some churches, talk to some people, read a history book or two and really consider why you don’t like religion, because it’s pretty clear right now that you’re bullshitting.
It's just straight up not just Catholics that decorate their churches and it's really tiring hearing that. Other religious sects have literal *megachurches* that are not catholic at all. I hate religion for many reasons, decorated temples being the least of them It's a way to manipulate the poor people in your population, that's it. That is all religion is. It's a way to get people to hate other people so they'll follow what you say. It's pretty easy to get the poor and uneducated people behind a war effort if you tell them "the other guys religion is bad" Have *you* read a history book?? Or are you just skipping over the majority of humankind? Religion is a way to control people. That's all. Stop glorifying it.
Looks like you haven’t been too very many churches. Because 99% of them aren’t decorated like that at all.
Seems like you've been to some bum ass churches. I have 3 in my small rural town in Massachusetts and they are *all* like that.
My dad is a Presbyterian minister. We talked about this last night, actually. He’s always been kind of critical of religious organizations and I asked him if he really believed in god. He said he believes in God but not the church. When I asked him to clarify that he said something to the effect of the church being constantly ready to substitute itself for the divine but that’s actually just idolatry. I mentioned that when you consider that it really helps root out who’s a “Real Christian” and who’s just exploiting people and he told me that’s idolatry as well. Faith is fine if it’s what motivates you but it hasn’t got jack shit to do with anybody else or a church. Tbh I think we mistake religious trauma for faith far too often.
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Yup all religions are based on old world values and it's messed up people try to use them in 2021.
This is an example of what I said in another comment, that extending the very worst behaviors of some religious people to the entirety of the religion is dumb. Do you see how illogical it is to say that anyone who is a Christian is supporting rapists? Child rape is committed by people of all religions, non-religions, ideologies, and political leanings. Also, churches are entities. Individual people have no say whether churches pay taxes. People who are religious pay all the same taxes you have to.
I dont think you understand the problem here. The Catholic Church spent decades protecting child rapists from the law. They actively tried to undermine investigations into those cases all the while claiming to be better than everyone else. If they had handed over those sick fucks to the cops as soon as they found out about them then I doubt a lot of people would hate the Church.
No, I understand all that. What I’m saying is that the vaaaaast majority of people who are Catholic aren’t participating in any of that process. They’re not child rapists or protecting child rapists. Why extend your judgement of the organization to all people who believe in Catholicism?
It doesn't matter if you aren't the ones raping people. You are donating to rapists, you show up every Sunday to a rapists house to listen to a rapist speak. Those rapists can be and are community leaders. I extend my judgement to you because you're defending rapists, and why? So you can get into heaven? Pretty selfish if you ask me.
Because you put your faith in an organization that chooses to protect its own image over the well being of children. Every organization has bad apples but that's not the point here. It went all the way up to the top, the previous Pope knew all of it and didnt do a damn thing about it. How can you claim to be the only way to reach God while protecting some of the most vile people on the planet? Do you not see the hypocrisy in that?
Downplaying the mass-rape the church has been doing for CENTURIES is beyond fucked up and this is why I can't stand religious people. It's not just "some religious people", it's *your leaders*. It's the people who preach. Idc if religious people pay taxes, idc why churches don't have to pay taxes, the reason is archaic and shouldn't be used in 2021. They should absolutely pay taxes. If I find out places are mass raping people, I stop supporting them. I don't find reasons to defend them. Idc if other people rape, when that happens there are consequences. When a priest fucks an 11 year old choir boy he gets moved to another church, similar to how cops work when they murder people.
I’m not catholic. We’re talking about scale here. The number of people involved in the catholic rape scandal compared to all Catholics. I’m not downplaying it. I’m saying it’s silly to extend that to every catholic person. And you can’t possibly you don’t support ANY organization connected to fucked up stuff, right? The US military uses the Marvel movies as propaganda, and they engage in mass rape of the women involved in the military. Would you say everyone who watched Black Widow is supporting rape in the army?
Bold of you to assume I support the military champ, and you know why I don't? They fucking rape people. You're damn right I don't support our military. It is disgusting what they do to women/homosexuals, the rape, the acid attacks, the quid pro quo. You're going through some deep mental gymnastics to try and justify your support for rapists.
You have the mind and intellect of a child.
Sorry I made you think about things you want to sweep under the rug so you can still get into heaven, but your leaders are rapists, or people who cover up rape.
I'll repeat it -- you've got the intellect of a child. *My* leaders? I am not religious, nor was there any such implication. One day hopefully you will realize that everything is not black and white, nor in the colors your glasses presents them to you.
You aren't the main character of the world, nor were you the person I was replying to. You're very vain lol. If they weren't your leaders, why would you react to a comment that wasn't directed to you? Hmmm You even said *my leaders* like I was talking to you. If they weren't your leaders, you wouldn't have said that.
Do you give money to a church? You’re funding child rapists
Uhhh, some rando paying tithe at a small church in West Bumblefuck Ohio is funding child rape?
Yes because it funds the overall organization as a whole. It’s like buying a Nestle product
If you give money to the Catholic Church, or any organised religion, then you are supporting pedophiles. It's as simple as that. It DOES extend to the entire religion, and everyone in it who still supports it even after we know what happens behind the scenes.
That’s completely ridiculous. If US military members rape women overseas, are you supporting rape when you pay your taxes? Are you supporting the Chinese government’s atrocities every time you post on Reddit? Are you supporting child labor every time you buy an iPhone? This is what I mean. Why are we extending this completely inconsistent moral compass to just religion? In what other area of your life do you believe that atrocities committed by any individuals in an institution poison the entire institution, and that participation in that institution means you support every atrocity committed by anyone in the institution?
...yes? If you give money to organisations that are perpetuating atrocities, you are giving them the money they need to commit those atrocities.
Who are you people? As far is I know, child rape is happening/happened in some communities within the catholic church. As horrible as that is, it's not a reason to judge all religious people/Christians.
If the owner of a sports team came out and said "The [name of the team] has had a gigantic problem with raping little boys for hundreds of years now. It's time to stop." I would *IMMEDIATELY* stop supporting that team. Anyone who still supported that team after the owner came out and admitted his organization has been raping 10 year olds, I will judge heavily and think they don't really care about little boys being raped. Please tell me how the pope admitting to centuries of rape is any different.
Well then you have to move out of whatever country you live in too because all countries have committed atrocities. And you support them by living in them you monster
Unpopular opinion is posted on the Unpopular opinion sub.. TIME TO DOWNVOTE !!
Not sure if I appreciate the comment or the username more. It’s a tie
You don't need to choose, appreciate all of it pumpkin pie !
You’re my favorite
Redditors are some of the biggest bullies for things they disagree or collectively dislike.
Oh boo hoo. I can’t even tell people in my community that I don’t believe. They’ll consider me an outcast immediately and avoid me like the plague. I’ll lose job opportunities and people will keep their kids away from my kids. That’s real life. You’re worried about some internet strangers who don’t believe in your specific belief, poke a little fun, and now you consider yourself persecuted. You are by far the majority in most communities in real life. Upvoted!
Sounds like you need a new community
OP is upset that internet strangers don’t like their belief. But the reality is that some people are tied to a community that they are unable to leave for multiple reasons.
No I’m not upset that people don’t like my religion or agree with me. That’s juvenile. What I don’t appreciate is people dismissing and mocking other good people for just having a certain faith. Especially if something bad happens to that person and then there is a string of comments saying “looks like they didn’t pray hard enough lol” or “I thought your god was gonna save you” or some other rude shit. That’s not right, cause people are more complex than that.
Redditors are buttholes. Ignore them.
Live and let live, I'd say. I don't think anyone who's an educated and free thinking individual commend faiths, churches and other organizations that use people. But it's equally ignorant to condemn people with faith, as it is for believers to condemn people who don't. If people could just be kind and respect each other, without using, hurting and surpress others, the world would be a better place. But we all know that's an impossible utopia, because people are people.
Don’t vocalize your beliefs if you don’t want them ridiculed.
This is it. "When I tell people I believe silly things, they think I'm silly" is an odd one.
Well ig if you're bothered by such a thing. I've dealt with a shit ton of those people but they're a mild annoyance at best.
I don't mind faith. Just don't infringe on my liberties or security/health with your faith. That's where your faith should be limited.
Try satan, Reddit’s totally cool with satan.
I think it would be rad if someone took time out of their day to explain some of the magical tings they believe in, like basic religious stuff: God, afterlife and souls In a objective and logical way. God is not your personal ide so just talk about it in a non personal way. You are trying to understand/figure out this ide called god. At lest your personal view on it? That's the hole "struggle" part of any believer right..? lol Just so I know that your not a part of the group of complete idiot's that don't dare or know how to be critical about their own personal views and the ideas they adapted in their life time.. "So many amazing leaders and influential people in history had faith and it helped the world." Haha you believers sure got a good sense of humor.. or no sense of history. Hard to tell sometimes.. Did your mom tell you that you was "different" and not stupid lol?
I don’t think you’re stupid because you believe in a god, i just think you’re wrong. But each to its own. I don’t give a shit for peoples beliefs.
Atheists get literally killed some places. Even in the US there are severe consequences in some Southern towns if your community finds out youre an atheist. Polls show people hate us. Which is whataboutism i guess but. Faith is stupid wgd?
Faith is fine. As long as people do not try to legislate or force their beliefs on others I could not care less. Religion as a concept is an exclusionary concept (like the concept of "whiteness" is based upon who is NOT considered "white" rather than who is) and religions of all kinds have murdered untold millions of people. That's why people don't like religion.
Welcome to how the minority feels. Your belief system being attacked in a public forum, or worse people voicing their concern that all organized faiths are no more than cults. Oh no! Imagine if this has an effect on you at work, school, the laws that govern you, or even when you need to get medical care. . . Oh wait . . . This isn’t an unpopular opinion. Most people you interact with have “faith”. Shame you view freedoms of speech in a positive light only when your “faith” is the ones being critical of others.
Nobody gives a shit about your religion as long as you don't shove it down others throats.
Some people seem to give a lot of shits even if you never shoved it down anyone’s throat. That’s what I don’t like.
Upvoted for truly unpopular opinion, yes religion has done some good for people but it’s FAR outweighed by the negatives.
I totally agree. Sadly this is an unpopular opinion on this site.
Faith is fine, using your faith to make decisions for other people is bad.
Depends on what you have faith in. Some of the things people believe based on faith definitely make them stupid.
Hate the belief, love the believer
Doesnt fit in reddit hive mind.
As one of the most solid atheists you could ever meet, I wholeheartedly agree with this post. As a pragmatist, I have to acknowledge that faith works. Religion works. One cannot argue with such success. The truth is, I am a little bit jealous of those with Faith. It clearly is comforting for them, and I clearly have never possessed it. Militant atheism is to me a religion.
Yeah. Am all for shutting down whichever pieces of religions hurt people and have to go, but some people are just religiously intolerant - and tend to conflate all religion with Christianity. It's okay to believe in stuff. People who mock any mention of religion with "haha, you're an idiot with a sky fairy" type shit are edgy and obnoxious. Nobody's asking you to convert...just be polite for a hot minute.
You are pretending that you are being attacked when in fact your ideas are being attacked.
I’m interested in you elaborating if you’ve got the time?
You are invested in your religion, it forms part of your identity, it provides you with a community that accepts and values you, it gives you guidance and meaning. You value it. But at the same time you understand that it doesn't hold water. You have tried to use it in intellectual settings and discovered that it cannot withstand rational interrogation. You felt stupid. But you cannot bear to abandon your religion and forgo the benefits it gives you, so you pretend that the feelings of stupidity were the result of a personal attack rather than demonstration of the logical flaws.
Uh. Lol. Okay. I think you may have thought my post was about feeling stupid. Which could have been through a lack of clarity. But nah. Personal values hold as much water as you allow it to. So the phrase “it doesn’t hold water” seems presumptuous of my life. And rational interrogation was not what happened. What happened was a mocking of someone’s belief instead of tackling the person’s personal choices. And you’re assuming I was offered a “demonstration of logical flaws” This is the shit I’m talking about. You grouped me into an ideology or thought without any significant information about me. Just the fact I had faith.
Yes, just the fact you had faith. I don't have faith in ideas, I test them, I challenge them and I abandon them when they don't hold up. Testing God is sacrilege. Abandoning God leads to an eternity of suffering. There's a reason religions are exclusive (e.g. Thou shalt have no other got but me), you can't reconcile multiple religions because they offer different answers to the same questions.
This guy is the personification of the 'reddit atheist' meme
This isn't always strictly true. Quite often people resort to name calling rather than having a philosophical debate.
Id say more often than not
I have no problem with religion as long as you don’t push it on others and as long as you don’t let it stop you from accepting science.
Oh yes this. Totally true. I think science and faith can be in harmony. I honestly don’t understand anyone who rejects science completely just cause of faith.
It’s only a problem when the believers start projecting their beliefs towards every non believer. Start trying to integrate it into law. Yell from the streets that everyone else is going to hell. Protest abortion clinics. IMO, Christianity has got to be the most aggressive religion- it has scarred me from ever practicing religion again and my life feels lighter and easier not having to worry about punishment for having normal human thoughts.
Christianity definitely isn’t supposed to be like that. It’s not the religion that’s that way, it’s some of the people. The people take it too far and it’s disgusting. I promise we’re not all that way and we’re not supposed to be. They took a beatiful religion and made it perceived as hateful
That happened with every religion, ever. (Except for Buddhism, they got lucky.)
my country is a backwards shithole because of religion and we dont have some human rights. fuck religion. fuck it for making my life as a non cishet person harder. fuck it for corrupting people. hate the belief, love the believer or something
Can I ask which country? I’m curious. I’m so sorry you feel that way.
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Ugh man. That sucks. I don’t think anyone should be forced into anything. Oppression blows and reminds me if I have it a lot easier than some. It should always be a choice and I forget sometimes that choice is taken away. It hurts my heart that this is a reality. I do my best to love my neighbor and that does not include any kind of oppression at all, and I wish everyone could have had only the great experiences you can with faith.
Facts,I found it so funny when people truly believe to the core they are smarter than believers. Okay Einstein sure
The ironic thing is that Einstein was actually religious.
Makes someone a huge fucking target when you include something about your god in your post too
The thing is even religious people who are not assholes hold closely held beliefs about a great many things that affect the rest of us (like policies on abortion, euthanasia, teaching science in schools, acceptance of gay community, tax resources, etc.). These beliefs don’t exist in a bubble where they don’t interact with the non-believing world. As for prayer in particular, I’m tired of this being a solution to school shootings and a shit healthcare system. The interested parties here (gun nuts and for profit healthcare companies) use this as a distraction tool to get us from passing meaningful reforms to help people and it angers me that it doesn’t anger religious people who see their religion used as a tool to keep society from progressing. Lastly, when talking about the issues I mentioned earlier, reasoning and logic only have a limited effect on people who literally suspend reason and logic to maintain their religious beliefs and stand in the way of us progressing in those issues. So while religion might be special for you, it can be a problem for the rest of us when you stand in the way of improving society in a real way.
If you want to belong to an organization that is well known for hurting lots of people then be prepared to be lumped in as someone who is willing to hurt lots of people. Plain and simple.
Jesus Christ these comments are fucking ruthless. Really proves your point. A lot of people in the comments are going after the Catholic church which is stupid because you very specifically didn't specify a single religion. I'll be honest, I think religion has done more harm than good and as long as they are as big as they are, they won't get better and just act as a hub for rapist and money hungry horrible people to thrive off of people's faith. That being said I don't judge people for the act of believing in something. If it makes them feel comforted then who am I to tell them what to think. My issue is more with the religious organizations and the uglier side, and this might sound naive but I do think that there's a way for faith to exist without this horrible side of it taking away from it all. I don't know how but hopefully someday.
I was just thinking the same thing. This kind of does prove my point. No one has any clue whether or not I push my religion on anyone, or any of my political opinions and if they even coincide. Many assumed I dismiss history. Many assumed so much of me with such little info lol. I appreciate you noticing lol
I agree. As a Christian, I see other Christians being VERY condescending and treating people terribly. I understand why they get the crap they do- they treat people exactly how Jesus DIDNT want us to treat people. I treat everyone with as much love and acceptance as I possibly can, and I’m sorry that too many people haven’t been treated that way. It makes us look bad, it really does. So I’m sorry on behalf of the Christians who are being awful. We’re not all that way 🧡 and ps, yes I do believe in science.
I like to point out that people like aren't actual Christians just people using religion to push their own beliefs and agendas
Thanks. As someone who's part of a religious group and active in supporting those with other faiths I really dont understand why theres always a jerk who's gonna jump into a post or conversation and start making fun of us or ask us lots of either nonsense or heavy questions. Even if we answer them reasonably or even not answer at all they start throwing crap.
Right?! I also don’t appreciate that people group me in with other ideologies because I believe in god. Got accused of trying to convince everyone 2021 is a normal year and told to pray to my invisible friend lol. Dude has no idea who I am and groups me in with others first chance.
I see the comment right below mine. I hope you have better days without asses like those
Facts but that tells you something about reddit
I am an atheist/agnostic, and seen more hate coming from "extreme" atheist than from religious people. Now where I live I haven't met a lot of catholic people, but Islam is a quite popular religion. Since I was a child, kids who were Muslim never really mentioned it, never bothered other about it, all I knew was that they couldn't eat some meat. On the other hand, I have seen a lot of children making fun of them for stuff they don't even know why. Have seen mother outraged that my nanny came to pick me up with a veil on her hair. My father hates with a passion every religion and religious people he sees. And they spit on innocent people who did nothing wrong apart from believing in a god. It would be so nice if people made the difference between religion and religious people. To see that everyone practice their faith their own way. If they learn to listen instead of always summoning war upon every faith having people. Talking with a lot of my religious friend I have learned a lot of stuff, and understood that a lot of their principle was common to mine and that we shared a lot of values. That what was written in a book was not a strict set of rules, but a guide to help you go through life. And most importantly, that the best of religious people knew that what you live is between you and your lord. I have a lot of respect for believers who think like that. I don't know if it is common, or weel seen in the religion, but I don't care. I know now that these community have a lot more diversity that what my father told me when I was a kid. I don't define myself as an atheist, I don't fight for atheist values against religion. I am a human person who lives with my own believes, and I am at peace when the person in front of me treats me with respect, and I treat them with respect as well. I don't fight against religions nor against atheism, I fight against lack of respect, lack of humanity, regardless of your beliefs.
“I fight against lack of respect, lack of humanity, regardless of your belief” Beautiful
Glad it touched you. Might be a bit of a candide and naive speach, but I have never seen a world where cursing and hate resolved any problems.
Yeah all those atheists killing people for being gay and stripping women of their rights, so hateful.
Just tell them you're Muslim, not Christian, and they'll get over it *real quick.* When Redditors say religion/faith is bad, *even though they won't admit it*, (and in fact they may not even be consciously aware they are doing it) they are *specifically* referring to Christianity *only*, not any other religion and *definitely* not Islam.
My step father is a minister, and he is a very nice and smart person. I just do not like hearing stuff about religion the same way religious people might hate atheist talk. What I do find stupid is using your religion as a form of defense against things like Covid or cancer. That straight up pisses me off.
Nobody knows about what you believe in unless you tell them. And when you tell people stupid stuff that holds no value in our society, you should be prepared to be ridiculed. Nothing rude about that. You want your faith be untouched? Keep it to yourself. All the good things faith supposedly did are outweight 100x by all the bad things. It doesnt require faith to do good things, so that is kind of a non-argument. Feeling like it makes you a target is just selfvictimization, because that conduct is good and is not unique to faith in any way. Anything stupid and not grounded in reality gets attacked here.
> Having faith doesn’t make you stupid, it just makes us different. It depends on how you define stupid. I’d argue someone very religious with a 180 IQ is still stupid on one level.
Totally agree. Believing in God here, is like saying you agree with the hate that spews from some people. It’s prejudice in it’s finest.
I dislike religion because i simply had negative experiences with it. I used to pray as a kid, yet didn't get blessed, instead cursed, which simply threw away all my belief and changed my opinion, that even if he did exist, i would hate him. Now i dont hate people who do believe, but so far, most of them in my experience have been very forceful about it and cant help but hate me for just not believing.
Oh man I totally agree. I’ve run into plenty of that myself. I will say there are such loving believers out there who care more about you loving you than you agreeing with their belief. I like helping people feel good about themselves and a lot of the times I don’t need to talk about religion to do that. There is a time and place.
I havnt seen that much. Maybe r/atheism users but remember that those are all of the arrogant atheists. Normal atheists just respect religion.
You’re right it doesn’t make you stupid all at once, but slowly over time.
If you religion favors oppression, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, racism and the like, then you can rightly fuck off.
I beg to differ. Worshipping imaginary beings makes you very stupid indeed.
The amount of people who have a go at religions for being intolerant whilst doing the same is always quite funny to me. Two wrongs don’t make a right and a lot of the time it’s just an attempt to be holier than thou (see what I did there). I’m not conventionally religious but don’t really think of myself as an atheist either. Live and let live. Anyone who spends time on the internet or in real life telling people there wrong and there is a better way to live life inevitably ends up on shaky ground in the long term. Always try to learn from people you disagree with or live differently from you. no matter where you’re from or what you believe.
Wish I had your talent for articulation in this. This was well said and what I believe too
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I agree, and this is definitely unpopular on Reddit. I don’t know why Redditors can’t see the obvious soft benefits of faith, or why they extend the very worst religious-based behaviors in human history to all people who have faith. Like, there’s a radical fascist Islamic sect thousands of miles away from you that you’ll never encounter in real life. Why have you decided to judge the entirety of the Muslim faith based on that? And why do you have empathy for those who’ve been hurt by religion, but none for those who’ve been hurt because they were of a certain religion?
Unless it's faith in the state, then you're stupid.
I hate when it's forced into unrelated threads. Like finance or stocks. "Don't invest in that company ceo is a christian" or " don't use that bank they deal with xyz" etc. I'm here to make money not debate theology.
Oh same. I said somewhere else there is a time and place.
Atheist here, agree fully. Faith and loyalty to God, Allah, Mother Earth, Fellow Human, Ganesha are all to be admired and I respect that. If it brings you peace and helps bring comfort to the universe I’m on board.
It absolutely makes you stupid.
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Got angry had to say something I guess. You’re welcome regardless
No faith or religion ever did a damn thing to make the world a better place.
A lot of do gooders, non profit leaders, charity workers, or even just everyday people helping others are lead by their faith and values. Faith guides a lot of us to do truly impactful things for each other. I think that makes the world a better place. Maybe not in a huge showy way, but it makes a difference. Just a good deed at a time.